|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 8:05:44 GMT -5
The other day I had my last nerite snail die, This morning I woke up and my Otto was dead. and one of my cardinals, I have another cardnial swimming on its side, floating to the top, so he is getting ready to die, One of my black skirts has POP EYE looks like it is going to pop! and I noticed on the gold skirts looked like they had like a white outline all the way around there fins... None of the water parameters have been right, so I was assuming the tank was just not cycled yet, tried not to worry so much! just did partial water changes every other day, And now this...... I suck at fish keeping! I was late getting to work this morning because as soon as I seen the dead otto, I started panicking and started taking water out, about 50% of it! then added some more, it was straight out of the tap but i put some jungle start in it, then took about 25% out again, and left it like that and added some quick cure! I didn't have any MB I couldn't find it last time I looked for it at the LFS so I waited until i was going to go into another, (which haven't done yet) So my water is blue with my fish in it, I didnt add anything else except that quick cure.. no salt no nothing... I dont know what i am going to find when I get home, I think I forgot to even plug the heater back on! I was in such a hurry. Is that stuff going to stain everything? I know my hand is stained blue right now because I stuck my hand in it to take out an ornimant , wasn't thinking What do I do guys??? I am so desperate right now, and even in an anxious mood because Im stuck at work right now and dont know what is happing to my fish at this moment!!!!
|
|
|
Post by brenda on Nov 13, 2008 9:39:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry you're having all these issue's Cashay. I don't know what to tell you other then I would think this definitely has to be something in the water. DO you have any ornaments that may not be meant for aquariums that could be poisoning the water? I am just grasping at straws here for you. Maybe, you could also try using Prime as a water conditioner because if it is ammonia and or nitrites Prime will neutrilize everything to at least make the water safe if your tank is indeed still cycling. I don't know ummmm tell us everything in your tank from ornaments to filters....Let's see if with every detail of your tank if we can put together what the problem is. By the way you don't suck at fish keeping...If you did you wouldn't care so much.
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 10:22:39 GMT -5
the only thing I have in there is one ornament I got from Walmart, but have had that for a year,from the fish department, I have two fake plants in there from the fish department and a java fern, a HOB whisper filter that came with the tank, I have a sponge filter, that I bought from Carl, and I have a hydron heater and another heater i got from walmart, can't think of the name of it right now, but it is for a 5-10 gallon i think... and the gravel, that's it.... i just have a feeling I will go home to a tank full of dead fish!
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 13, 2008 10:30:16 GMT -5
Don't panic Cashay. It is best to react a little more slowly when something like this happens.
What are your water parameters?
Also, how did the fish look yesterday?
Also, keep in mind that some fish may get sick and die but if you treat them or the other fish don't get it, they won't ALL die.
I'm honestly not sure what exactly is going on. I wish I could help more. Maybe someone more knowledgable will know. Sorry Cash, wish I could help more.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 13, 2008 11:01:19 GMT -5
Sorry you are having these problems Cash. As Brenda stated, I would use Prime instead (I also use Start Right, but only in tanks with no ongoing issues, otherwise I use/recommend Prime). Do not add Methylene Blue directly in full strength in your main aquarium as this may cause more problems than it solves. The problems seems to be an anaerobic pathogen based on the tank history, parameters, pop eye, and other issues. The quick Cure is safe for now, but you may need something more effective for the problem you have, but my main concern is to get to the source of the problem and not the symptoms. Carl I went back and looked at your video that you posted for any clues. How old is your gravel? If this is the original gravel, maybe this is where the decomp is. Although a total gravel change is harsh to your bio cycle, hopefully by only gentle de-chlorinated rinsings. So my best advice is a TOTAL gravel change, medicated baths with salt/MB (outside the tank in a separate container).
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 11:03:21 GMT -5
I have no idea what my water parameters are, I have said for the last few weeks they were not regeristering at all, And after i did all this morning I had to get to work, I was already late, i couldn't stick around to get readings on the water, I just changed water and threw some quick cure in there, as I have stated.. I am at work right now thinking i will go home to all dead fish, and I think they are all effected by this so called strange killing! one had pop eye BAD! the other were sluggish and some floating like they were dieing right in front of my eyes.... I try not to panic but GHEEZ this is like watching children drop dead right in front of you!
Carl most of the Gravel is new but I did use the old after rinsing it. so I could save some of the bacteria, (which might be a bad thing now) can I get the MB in a lfs??? like today? Im serious about thinking I will go home and find them all dead, the way they looked this morning was not good!
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 11:09:13 GMT -5
Ok Carl, when you get a moment tell me what exactly i need to do when I get home, if there are still some alive. and what about the quick cure i put in the main tank this morning? The water was blue... How much of what do i use, what do i do with my tank now? ?
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 13, 2008 11:09:25 GMT -5
I know what you mean Cashay. I have had fish sick i found one morning and left for school because I ahd to be on time leaving nothing i could do until after school. I felt horrible btut when I got home they were all still alive or a little worse but not dead depeending on what was wrong. Unless it is something really bad, they shouldn't all be dead by the time you get home. You and your fish are in my prayers Cashay.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 13, 2008 11:10:11 GMT -5
I have no idea what my water parameters are, I have said for the last few weeks they were not regeristering at all, And after i did all this morning I had to get to work, I was already late, i couldn't stick around to get readings on the water, I just changed water and threw some quick cure in there, as I have stated.. I am at work right now thinking i will go home to all dead fish, and I think they are all effected by this so called strange killing! one had pop eye BAD! the other were sluggish and some floating like they were dieing right in front of my eyes.... I try not to panic but GHEEZ this is like watching children drop dead right in front of you! I understand I am basing my water parameters points as your tank history from previous posts, I honestly would not stress on this any more than you need to. I think we need to get the tank a fresh start and then maybe worry about parameters. The other method of killing off this stuff in the existing tank is full strength treatment of Potassium Permanganate which is a powerful oxidizer, I have used this method before with mixed success. Carl
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 12:24:28 GMT -5
I think we need to get the tank a fresh start and then maybe worry about parameters.
What does this mean Carl? What and where do I start?
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 13, 2008 12:36:58 GMT -5
I think we need to get the tank a fresh start and then maybe worry about parameters. What does this mean Carl? What and where do I start? Removing your gravel as I noted earlier, so as to remove any source for anaerobic pathogens such as Aeromonas or Pseudomonas and organic decomposition, all the while treating the surviors with Medicated Salt/MB baths. Carl
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 14:21:21 GMT -5
Ok, how much of the MB should I use If I can even find it today... and how much salt? Is this epsom salt and aquarium salt? and how much of all, please tell me everything exactly so I wont have another panic attack doing this. , I can tell you the only other tank I have is the 2.5 gallon I gave my grandson the 5 gallon for a betta and the 2.5 has not been set up either so I would have to put the water in it once I got home, or am I going to treat my whole 14 gallon with all fish (survivors) in it? Then change water later ??/
|
|
|
Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 13, 2008 15:31:24 GMT -5
Sherry...I am so sorry you are having issues.
Carl is referring to Aquarium Salt. Meth Blue..I use 1 drop in like 12 oz of water...I poisoned my fish when I first got mine from Carl. It is powerful stuff. You can find Meth Blue at a LFS..it comes in a fish shaped bottle...like .25 oz or something like that. I think that will work for now but quite honestly...get some from Carl.
How long has the 14g been set up? It took 6 weeks for my 10g (and 55g) to cycle totally.
I 3rd the use of Prime. It is a bit expensive (sorta) but you use like 2 drops per gallon so it lasts a long time. I use 3 drops per gallon because my tap water is so bad.
I also agree with Carl...break the tank down to a bare tank. Lets start with the water its self. Then go from there. Something is causing the problems so it is easier to pinpoint the cause this way (I did this to find out what I am allergic to...food allergy).
Crossing fingers that your fishies are ok...
Lori
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 15:48:28 GMT -5
Thanks Lori, This fish keeping can be so frustrating!! But I am going to figure out what I am doing wrong and become a great fish keeper, With the help from everyone on here of course, I just really hope the other fish are not dead, will this MB treat the fishes pop eye too? that sorta freaked me out this morning when I seen it, I had never seen a fish with pop eye! ewww poor baby! Can I do this is my regular tank? since I already have put the quick cure in it? or should I just put them in the 2.5 gallon and do dips? My 14 gallon has been set up for about 1 1/2 months, But I used all the stuff from my old tank, water and all when I changed over exception of more water... And before I changed over that water was sitting at almost perfect!!
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 13, 2008 16:24:34 GMT -5
Thanks Lori, This fish keeping can be so frustrating!! But I am going to figure out what I am doing wrong and become a great fish keeper, With the help from everyone on here of course, I just really hope the other fish are not dead, will this MB treat the fishes pop eye too? that sorta freaked me out this morning when I seen it, I had never seen a fish with pop eye! ewww poor baby! Can I do this is my regular tank? since I already have put the quick cure in it? or should I just put them in the 2.5 gallon and do dips? My 14 gallon has been set up for about 1 1/2 months, But I used all the stuff from my old tank, water and all when I changed over exception of more water... And before I changed over that water was sitting at almost perfect!! Thanks Lori! I will add to what Lori already mentioned that I would NOT do this in your main display tank, the purpose of a bath is for the use of heavy medication and slat that would not be generally recommended for your main tank. The bath should be in a bare tank as well. The 2.5 would be fine, provided it was bare and was not a display tank for other fish. Otherwise even a 1 gallon or smaller container is fine for 30 minutes. I have more about baths in this article: Aquarium Disease Prevention, Baths, Section 9Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 13, 2008 16:26:49 GMT -5
Do not put the MB into your main tank. It will kill beneficial bacteria which is not good for a cycling tank. For the MB, isolate the fish in a gallon of water and give them a bath in that. Then, when you are done, gently net them out and put them back into their tank. Get rid of the water you used for the bath afterwards. MB is used for bath, not a full tank treatment.
Hope that helps!
|
|
|
Post by kagome on Nov 13, 2008 19:24:07 GMT -5
I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble with your tank. I know that this sort of thing can be terribly frustrating and upsetting. One thing I wanted to chime in on was to tell you that when you are breaking down your tank DO NOT use any kind of soap or detergent to clean stuff. Use only clean tap water.
As far as quick cure goes. It's one drop per gallon for three days, unless you have a sensitive species of fish in the tank like an elephant nose or some sort of loach or other scaleless fish in which case your would half the dose. On the third day do a 25% water change, on the fourth day start a new three day cycle. Keep going for at least 14 days in order to kill whatever is in your tank. I know the bottle directions differ from that somewhat, but Carl told me after I was having trouble with protozoan infestations popping back up that the bottle does not tell you to treat long wnough to kill the entire life cycle of the pathogens.
Don't beat yourself up about this, these things happen sometimes. I had an angelfish tank for years and I had a party at my house and apparently someone poured some sort of clear drink in the tank and killed all my fish overnight. Then it took months to get it to properly cycle after that, it was awful. You're trying very hard to be a responsible fish owner and that is the most important thing. All of us have lost fish and all of us have gone through frustrating periods of trial and error trying to get a tank straightened out.
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 19:55:56 GMT -5
well I came home and lost the other cardinal, which I knew I was going to, that is the one that was laying on its side floating to the top, if i touched it, it would move... but it's gone,, I have two skirts with pop eye now, one gold and one black, And now i HAVE A BIGGER PROBLEM This morning when I wasnt thinking and didn't have much time i put the quick cure in the main tank. so now what do I do? I went to two different stores after work, but couldn't find the methylene blue, so I picked up some rid ich+ disease treatment from Kordon....suppose to be for Ich, and other external protozoan,dinoflagellate,and fungal diseases. and Prime,and Mardel that is another thing for ick,velvet and other parasites..
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 13, 2008 21:37:42 GMT -5
well put not even a cap ful of prime in water and all cardinals died with in two min. if that, and skirts are very weak will be lucky if they make it, lost a gold skirt in the first 4 min
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 13, 2008 22:15:07 GMT -5
I am sorry that you lost another fish, and I find it sad that Methylene Blue is so hard to find, which it should NOT be. MB though is best in medication mixtures (such as Medicated Wonder Shells, Nitrofura G, etc.) baths, dips, or bare quarantine tanks, so it really is not the same thing. Kordon Rid Ich is VERY mild treatment that is quite safe, but at the same time much less effective (ParaGuard by SeaChem is by far the best combination of safety and effectiveness) See: Ich TreatmentsThe main thought though is that you do not have ich, rather an Aeromonas or other anaerobic bacterial infection which is why we have recommended a tank re-start (with new gravel, but saving the sponge and other filters for nitrification) I do have Methylene Blue, but that may take some time The other idea besides new gravel is treating with Potassium Permanganate which is a very strong oxidizer to destroy the anaerobic bacteria WHILE fish are present. Carl
|
|