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Post by cashay on Nov 15, 2008 15:26:37 GMT -5
Sorry Carl didn't quite understand what you had asked at first, when I added the water it was after they had started dieing already, No water changes right before, this is what happened.... the morning I seen the fish dead, I took out two dead fish, otto and cardinal, i syphoned out half the water and added quick cure, went to work. when i got home one more of my fish were dead but he was almost dead before i left for work. But all other's were still alive, and seemed to be doing ok, but I noticed two skirts had pop eye, so i put them in a hospital tank and am using melafix on them(which is working great by the way) Then went back to regular tank and since I had stopped at store I got some prime, and added and few drops to my quick cure tank (main tank) Then fish started freaking out and then I took out all water from main tank and added just plain tap water with nothing in it... they started coming back to life. But I didnt add anything to tank when I added prime, Only after.. does this make it any more understanding?....
when i look at a couple of the fish they do look like they had burned gills, but thats weird because again only thing new added was the prime, they actually did better with out adding anything to declorinate the water.... go figure, i am baffled!
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 15, 2008 16:02:06 GMT -5
Cashay,. have you been able to test your ammonia and nitrites lately? Maybe that is cuiasing some of the burned gills.
Sorry, I am not clear on whne you are adding the Prime. Are you adding it without doing a water change?
Before you add the each water change or after you add the water each water change?
If you suspect it is the problem, discontinue it and use another dechlorinator t see if you get the same symtoms the next time you do a water change. Also, how much Quick Cure are you using? If yu suspect that could also be a problem, maybe give 4/5 of a normal dose instead of a full dose next time. That won't be any less effective for the treatment really but it mayreduce the stress of the fish a little if that is it.
Honestly, I don't know what it is. I'm just shooting some questions and options around to try to see what it is. good luck!
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Post by Carl on Nov 15, 2008 16:39:14 GMT -5
Thanks Cash for the further explanation, however I am still unclear (as Renee pointed out) when the Prime went is.
Your fish symptoms and my research into your municipal water all point towards chloramines poisoning.
Also even if it Seems that the tap water was fine, I have to wonder if your Prime had a delayed action, especially since Prime does not act on chloramines nearly as quickly as it does chlorine.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 15, 2008 18:02:24 GMT -5
I read your article Carl but I am also still confused on something. I add dechlorinator before, sometimes in the midst of, or even right after a water change. My fish don't react anything like this and show little stress or no stress. Why is this? I didn't know you had to add mix the water from the tap with dechlorinator before but I just wonder why my fish never have a reaction. It seems strange.
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Post by Carl on Nov 15, 2008 18:38:03 GMT -5
I read your article Carl but I am also still confused on something. I add dechlorinator before, sometimes in the midst of, or even right after a water change. My fish don't react anything like this and show little stress or no stress. Why is this? I didn't know you had to add mix the water from the tap with dechlorinator before but I just wonder why my fish never have a reaction. It seems strange. Several factors, the most important of which is that your area likely uses Chlorine, not chloramines of which the harmful effect is much slower and to which de-chlorinators works within seconds UNLIKE chloramines. See this article for a simple experiment to PROVE this point: Aquarium Water ConditionersIt also depends on the size of the water change as well, often with just chlorine in the tap, a water change under 25% does not require a de-chlorinator at all (as I know Bill has noted this as well). Although I still generally recommend adding a water conditioner for the additional electrolytes and redox reducing factor they provide. Carl
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Post by cashay on Nov 15, 2008 19:28:08 GMT -5
however I am still unclear (as Renee pointed out) when the Prime went is.
The prime went in about 12 hours after taking half of the water out, and adding quick cure...( that morning) I didnt add any more water with the prime, maybe I should have...
I have some water sitting out to do a 25% water change tomorrow, and a little prime in it, I have jungle start in tank already will this clash with the prime? you know I'm anxious about using it.... I would kick my self if the same thing happens and Im scurring around again trying to drain it..and refill it.
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Post by Carl on Nov 15, 2008 20:23:35 GMT -5
I would just use the Prime this time, and setting it out, giving the Prime a chance to work is a good idea in this case.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 15, 2008 21:30:52 GMT -5
Cashay, I know I just PM'ed not to use the Prime with these fish. But Carl has more experience, so you should probably go with what he says first. If they react again with just the Prime, then maybe you should go with what I said in my PM, but Carl should probably come first since he has much more experience with this product than me. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by cashay on Nov 16, 2008 20:31:16 GMT -5
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Post by bikeguy33 on Nov 16, 2008 20:56:27 GMT -5
hmmmm....still sounds like an ammonia problem sometime in their lives. without going back through the whole post, was that ruled out???
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Post by cashay on Nov 17, 2008 10:14:14 GMT -5
hmmmm....still sounds like an ammonia problem sometime in their lives. without going back through the whole post, was that ruled out??? Before any of this happened, my water parameters were not really registering, so we kind of chalked it up to not fully cycled yet. i did have some of those tablets dropped in there a few days before the big break out, ( to elimiante ammonia) cant think of the name right now.... But every thing seemed fine until that morning I woke up to two fish dead, then of course adding prime and killed 4 more.... in minutes.... I swear all this is just blowing me away! I haven't done any water checks in a while because of the meds being used, should I still be keeping up with them right now? or is the meds going to throw it all off?
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Post by Carl on Nov 17, 2008 10:46:57 GMT -5
Although I normally check water parameters in cases such as this, I would not be too concerned at this point since you are changing water, and are already stressed by the situation enough. I would defintely still perform MB/salt baths, Methylene Blue honestly is med that should be kept on hand and was part of my aquarium service employees "kit" (I know you have had trouble finding it). In tank you might try a "gentle" healing med. such as Melafix (Melafix is not a very effective med, in most cased but is extremely useful in healing) You can also add meds. to the bath (generally at double tank strength). For this you might consider Triple Sulfa, Nitrofurazone ( Furan 2). These meds. above could be used in the tank as well, but at this point I am more inclined to recommend continuing water changes, baths and Melafix in the tank based on what has happened. Make sure you do continue with 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons in the main tank and Wonder Shells or other mineral source as well for important Osmoregulation. Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 17, 2008 13:07:03 GMT -5
Sherry...did I miss something? You took out 1/2 the water but no mention of adding fresh water back in. If you had a tank 1/2 full...and added enough prime for a 20g or more tank...then very well they could have been overdosed. I agree with Carl...the reaction of the fish point more toward ammonia poising.
Glad the fish are doing well...and glad you are giving Prime a 2nd chance.
Lori
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Post by cashay on Nov 17, 2008 13:15:14 GMT -5
Thanks I am glad they are doing better too, I'm sure it was me that did more damage then anything, but I swear if I didn't react when I did they would have all died
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 17, 2008 13:16:30 GMT -5
Girl..you did GREAT!!!
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Post by cashay on Nov 17, 2008 13:20:20 GMT -5
LOl well thanks I wasn't fishing (no pun attended) for a compliment I just freaked out when I seen my friends dieing in front of me that fast
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 17, 2008 13:28:51 GMT -5
I know...but it was very quick thinking.
As far as prime goes...if I can't remember treating the water (due to loosing 4 of my show fish)..I add exactly the amount called for...in other words...I make up 1g jugs of water...add 3 drops per gallon...if I can remember adding it...I add 2 more drops (rec. dose is 2drops per gallon).
If you can...get a 20g rubbermaid (is rubbermaid still in business?) tote and add water to it (I use hot...add salt...let sit till cooled) then add prime. Let it sit over nite...as you take water out...add some back and add just enough prime and salt (aquarium) to the water and let it sit overnite again.
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Post by cashay on Nov 17, 2008 13:43:12 GMT -5
Sounds like a good way of doing this but my husband will never let me get a 20 gallon tote and keep in my living room! he would ring my neck,, I already have the other fish stuff hidden so he wont see it and freak out! he is a clean freak! and neat freak and he says all this fish stuff does not look neat in a pile next to the sofa! hahaha which it wasnt scattered but the more I looked at it piled over in the corner he was right... But I do have gallon jugs, and I will remember to add it when I fill the jugs up and hold over night! thanks for the tip..
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 17, 2008 13:56:47 GMT -5
garage?
out in the back yard?
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Post by cashay on Nov 17, 2008 14:27:41 GMT -5
I could do that, but that is a lot of carrying water to and from.. LOL Thanks!!!
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