|
Post by Carl on Nov 19, 2008 16:45:10 GMT -5
And bringing up the Ph with the marine buffer will bring up the KH? Because when i look at the bottle it says will being PH up to 8.3 Yes. This is s buffer fisrt (KH) a pH buffer second. So using this product or similar Malawi Buffers raise the KH which in turns raises the pH. This is why you do not want add too much at one time in FW (in SW it is much harder to OD, as it generally will not raise pH past 8.3 due to the ingredients). This is actually a very good question as many persons do not understand how these buffers work. This includes the Malawi and Tanganyika Buffer. Many persons do not understand that the ONLY difference between Marine Buffer and Tanganyika Buffer is that the Marine Buffer only raises pH to 8.3 based on ingredients while Tanganyika Buffer raises pH to 9.0 based on the ingredients when used full strength. Malawi Buffer raises pH to 8.2-8.3 as with Marine Buffer as they are the SAME product. SeaChem also makes Alkaline Buffer which does not have all the buffering minerals ingredients to hold pH at a certain value and it is just a straight buffer. Carl
|
|
|
Post by kagome on Nov 21, 2008 0:15:50 GMT -5
Hang in there Cash! I know you've had a tough time of it lately but it will get easier. Once you have stable tank conditions everything should even out and you should be able to spend more time enjoying your tank and MUCH less testing, changing, fretting and adding medicine and chemicals. Maintaining stability in your tank is actually pretty simple once you get everything there in the first place. So chin up! You'll make it through this!
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 21, 2008 8:42:12 GMT -5
that is great to hear! I am really tired of stressing over something I could sit and watch for an hour at a time!!! kinda like a bon fire, gets your attention, and hard to look away! But thanks for the encouragement Kamoge, I got the fish food yesterday.. and i thought they liked the stuff I gave them. But they tear this stuff up!!!! the sprunila20 or how ever you spell it. I gave it to them last night and they attacked it, well this morning when i was putting it in there I thought they were going to jump out of the water and take it out of my hand!! lol And I got the methylene blue dipped two of them in this and salt should I keep them in it for a little while? the 30 min bath? they seem to not move when I put them in there, but were fine when I took them out still have a small case of pop eye
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Nov 21, 2008 9:50:31 GMT -5
how can you see them in there w/ the mb? I've been doing the treatment thing too and once the 2-3 drop of blue goes in the quartof water, he's gone - of course, I'm not using a transparent container either....neat thing though, I just pour one container thru the net into another when I'm done - that way you don't have to go stressing the fish out searching for hom in the blue....good luck kiddo
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 21, 2008 11:42:50 GMT -5
HAHA I know what you mean, but I didnt take my eyes off of him, when I put him in! As much as these fish have gone through in the last couple of weeks, If I was going to detect any stress, they were coming out!!!! I left the net in to so I could just grab the handle and catch him, if he started flipping out.. I'm a strange one I know!
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 21, 2008 19:49:32 GMT -5
I've been giving MB baths to a betta too. We're MB people. lol I can barely see her based on the amount I put in. The MB stains everything and beware, when I try to clean it surfaces with soap and water, it gets onto the wash cloth and spreads like it does when it makes water almost "unseeable" through. If you use soap to clean an MB stain, be VERY careful. You'll find it other places soon enough. lol
It's my #1 dye of choice. XDD
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 22, 2008 11:25:31 GMT -5
I dont think I ever got an answer on the pop eye question, (if i asked it) But does it go away all the way? or will I always see effects from it on the fish?
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 22, 2008 14:17:21 GMT -5
It should go away completely if treatment is successful. However, I believe (as in 90% sure) that it can be hard to treat. But if the symtoms are slowly going away, they the fish should eventually go back to normal. I'm taking that you do not have a very severe case. In cases where the disease goes on, the fish can go blind and other damage can be done to the eye. But seeing as you treated prompty, I think their eyes should be pretty good afterwards.
|
|
|
Post by bikeguy33 on Nov 22, 2008 17:39:46 GMT -5
they will probably never look normal since theree is alot of tissue damage from stretching etc. like people getting stretch marks. with a lil luck tho....the damage may be minimal and hardly noticable.
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 22, 2008 18:42:05 GMT -5
Whoops, guess I was wrong then. Sorry Cashay. Still, they shouldn't look too bad.
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 24, 2008 7:20:28 GMT -5
well I think one is going to be partially blind, And I can notice a little difference in them as far as how their eyes look... Ok I just wanted to make sure, So how do you know if they have fully gotten over it then? even though they dont look normal?
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 24, 2008 10:18:04 GMT -5
well I think one is going to be partially blind, And I can notice a little difference in them as far as how their eyes look... Ok I just wanted to make sure, So how do you know if they have fully gotten over it then? even though they dont look normal? Although the eyes likely will not ever be 100% (as already noted by Bill), the swelling should go down to almost normal. Activity and appetite should also be good as your fish recover. Finally, you should have a more stable pH and KH as you find the "sweet spot" for the amount of buffers to add. Carl
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 27, 2008 6:24:49 GMT -5
Not sure exactly how long ago, What the water parameters at that time but this morning, nitrate-20 nitrite-0 gh-150 kh-40 (better then 0!) Ph 6.8
This is with me putting two capfuls of marine buffer in every day, what will happen when I stop putting the buffer in? Go back down? which Im not going to stop putting in yet, i want kh much higher and ph higher at least to 8.3
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 27, 2008 12:19:53 GMT -5
Not sure exactly how long ago, What the water parameters at that time but this morning, nitrate-20 nitrite-0 gh-150 kh-40 (better then 0!) Ph 6.8 This is with me putting two capfulls of marine buffer in every day, what will happen when I stop putting the buffer in? Go back down? which Im not going to stop putting in yet, i want kh much higher and ph higher at least to 8.3 Actually these are vastly better numbers as to both KH and pH. Also as I have noted before and in my Aquarium GH/KH/pH article that you should more aim for a stable pH, not an specific number which getting your KH up will do (the biggest danger from pH is wild swings which can be deadly since the pH scale is logarithmic and a change from 7.5 to 6.5 is a tenfold change in pH! A pH of 8.3 is too high a goal for your FW fish, I would shoot for a STABLE pH of a number in the 6.8- 7.5 range (which you are already there) and more importantly a KH of about 50-100 which you are close too and this will maintain your pH stability. Once obtained, you will likely need to back off from your addition of Buffer and find out how much your tank will need (we kept records of our clients tanks so as to know how much buffer or similar to add to each unique client) Carl
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 28, 2008 7:09:27 GMT -5
So do I keep adding until the KH goes to at least 50? or that will automatically become that (stable kh) with a stable ph?
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 28, 2008 10:15:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 29, 2008 17:29:06 GMT -5
Ok backing off the buffer a little, checked parameters before the 25% water change and they were, Nitrate-not quite 20 a little higher Nitrite-0 GH- 150 KH was a little higher then 100 PH- 7.2 Ammonia was at stress level, so I added an ammonia tab to decrease it. The skirts have gotten their appetites back 2 folds!!!! will keep a good watch on the KH and try to keep at good levels, using a wonder shell and still a bare tank. no gravel, 1 live plant and one fake plant.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Nov 29, 2008 18:50:57 GMT -5
Yeh, GOOD JOB!! Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Nov 29, 2008 19:27:52 GMT -5
Great job Cashay! You're finally controling your KH/GH! Keep it up!
|
|
|
Post by cashay on Nov 30, 2008 8:05:39 GMT -5
LOL ;D like the dancing men Carl, And as far as controlling it? we will see, so far so good, I just hate the thought of having to add buffers in it like that, "just" to maintain....
|
|