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Post by eve on Feb 2, 2009 19:55:28 GMT -5
Unfortunately half of my bettas in containers are males. If I put them in a 20 together they would beat each other up and the females would be scared into hiding. I think you missed the part where i mentioned a divider i would never at any time recommend putting males and females together, unless you have a 55 gallon tank with lots of plants for hiding i'm very well aware of your financial situation, which i think pretty much everyone is in that situation at the current i know you're trying your best i just wanted to throw up some options for you to consider, that's all
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 3, 2009 6:32:37 GMT -5
Thank you Eve. I am doing what I can. The majority of my bettas are heated and currently have a light made for a 2 1/2 gallon on top of their containers (though it is actually too small to proper lightly some of them though I light them the best I can). Thanks Eve for the help and support. It is greatly appreciated. I'd personally love a 20 gallon I can only do what time and money can permit even if I got the main 20 for free. Plus I would need my mom's permission.
Thanks!
Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 3, 2009 15:06:28 GMT -5
These are the results of the test I got for my male betta Lotan's 1 gallon container. He is the brother of Critque. His container is currently heated and he has an aquarium light partially ligthing his container. His last water change was on Saturday, January 31st, 2009. I'm pretty sure it was 75% unless it was one of those rare ocassions where I did 25%. I added salt, a very tiny bit of SeaChem Buffer and dechlorinator (the same brand that makes Nox Ich). He is very active right now with no signs of stress and is eating very well.
Parameters: 3 p.m. February 3rd, 2009
Ammonia: 0.25 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 5 or less GH: 140 KH: 85-90 PH: 6.7 Chlorine: 0
I will be adding more Buffer next time to see if I can bring the PH, KH, and GH to something better like maybe...
PH: 7.0-7.2 KH: 110-130 GH: 150-180
since my tapwater has low KH, GH, and PH values.
I will be posting what my water parameters here every time I test.
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Post by Carl on Feb 3, 2009 18:03:03 GMT -5
Actually, I would not really worry about your KH/pH for your Bettas, these numbers are good. In fact I do not recommend "chasing" pH, especially in small tanks with fish that prefer low pH anyway. So my opinion is to cease the use of buffer and only use the Wonder shells which will not give your roller coaster pH readings.
If you add Wonder Shells, they will raise your GH, but mostly in positively charged minerals and this will give false high GH readings (similar to what you get with false ammonia readings when using Prime).
My main concern is the ammonia, and your ammonia is not too bad for an unfiltered aquarium 4 days after a water change. You will have to continue to monitor your ammonia to find the best water change schedule.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 4, 2009 15:33:56 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll be testing again today! Criqtiue is doing better and is much more active! He ate a little this morning but I'm not sure if he kept it down. I put his brother who is pink next to his 1 gallon. His brother is flaring at all the males like crazy including Critique. Maybe that got him going a little.
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Post by Carl on Feb 4, 2009 17:37:57 GMT -5
Good, the flaring stimulation may have helped as well.
One point I would like to stress and that is in the case of Bettas, even though many anecdotal fish keepers will stress low GH for Bettas or fish such as Discus, this is based on half truths about GH. As with testing ammonia after the use of Prime, where you will get false positives with many popular test kits, so it is with GH.
I get nasty emails/flames/phone calls all the time about using Wonder Shells or other methods of suppling a constant source of positively charged calcium other mineral cations. What is missed is that these mineral cations loose this positive charge in balancing Redox, and without CONSTANT replenishment, which can be difficult in a small container without water changes an/or the use of Wonder Shells (or similar), the GH may still test high, HOWEVER the positive charge will be gone and your Redox will suffer resulting in poor fish health. I have documented this in my tests many times and more and more University level research is bearing this out as well.
The bottom line is do not worry too much about your pH with your tap water conditions, but do try and maintain a source of these positive mineral ions.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 4, 2009 20:41:21 GMT -5
Same container, water change last done 1/31/09.
Ammonia: 0
Wednesday, 2/04/09
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 5, 2009 16:13:03 GMT -5
Due to running out of test strips (even though I'm cutting them in half) and lack of money to buy new ones. I will be checking the ammonia from now on every other day. I will stay layoyal to my routine though. I will never skip a testing.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Feb 5, 2009 20:21:23 GMT -5
I agree with Carl. My pH is around 7.8 out of the tap. It is better to have a stable pH than to add chemicals to the tank. Believe me...been there..done that!!!
Sorry...on my phone..hard to type...
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 6, 2009 16:25:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the help Suzie.
Today's reading, Friday, 2/06/09 is again, ammonia=0.
Any idea how much longer I need to test? I will be doing a weekly water changes for my bettas tomorrow.
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Post by eve on Feb 6, 2009 17:12:33 GMT -5
ahem i'm sorry, but you should really change 25% water at the very least every 4 days if not every 3 days none of the tanks is filtered, they need more fresh water then just weekly
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Post by Carl on Feb 6, 2009 18:07:04 GMT -5
Part of the reason of this test is to determine the frequency of water changes (in larger FILTERED tanks I will use nitrates, as well as KH and GH to determine this). *As Suzie Q has pointed out, larger volume water changes may be necessary as well. *I generally will not be as concerned with pH and KH in an unfiltered small container where maintaining these parameters is often more trouble than it is worth (this is not to discount their importance though, just to prioritize). *What needs to be looked at is why we change water ammonia is the most obvious and your tests show that you are doing well, however it is possible your nitrates are now going up, since your ammonia has not increased since the last water change, this indicates at least rudimentary bio filtration. Depletion of minerals and Redox are the lesser known reasons of water changes, with Redox being factor that many "accidentally" know about. Redox can often be the explanation of why a water change improves the health of a tank when other parameters are still good (giving credence to Eve's point of more frequent water changes). This is due to the fresh bio availability of mineral cations. Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 6, 2009 21:39:08 GMT -5
I seem to need more time in a day to take care of my fish. I guess I'll start doing maybe a 10-20% in the middle of the week and a larger water change on the weekend. I really need to get rid of some of my fish. Good thing I will be selling about 10 guppy fry next weekend.
Critique is eating off and on. I have seem droppings in his container which is a good sign that he is eating. I did an extra water change for him today. I'll probably do a one as well tomorrow as well so I can get waste out. (I also do this weekly)
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 7, 2009 10:06:22 GMT -5
This morning I was just feeding my fish and noticed on of the females affected by the problem swimming upward has a very swollen nose. She is in a 1 gallon and showing interest in food but spitting it out as of this morning. Unforutantely, her container is unheated since I have run out of room in the bin with the heater and 8 betta containers. I plan on heating her though as soon as possible because the red female thatw as attacked has recovered and can go back into the normal female betta tank. Dawn is a year and a half old (she hatched at my home in 2007). Her sister and brothers that I sold a long time ago had short snouts which made them look similar to how she does now but she never has had a short snout. She looks similar to them due to this problem but I don't think it is from poor genes (one of her parents was a Petsmart fish) like with her siblings. To be honest I have never seen anything like what is going onw ith her in a fish. The scales on her nose only are sticking out slightly. I got 2 pictures. Unfortunately the pictures from my low resolution camera sort of make it look like she has tiny/no eyes though her eyes are really fine. Here they are. I wonder what in the world is going on here. i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3124.jpgi457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3127.jpg
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Post by Carl on Feb 7, 2009 10:39:58 GMT -5
I honestly cannot see much from the pictures Renee. However I would say that maintaining a consistent temperature is important to health (at least 75 F), I believe Suzie Q has mentioned this too. This is not to say that Bettas cannot tolerate swings in temperature, as in there natural habitat there are monsoonal fluctuations in temperatures to as low as 59 F in some habitat locations, However this is a gradual change (seasonal) and even this is certainly hard on the fish. See this article: Aquarium Answers; Betta HabitatAs mentioned earlier, aim for fresh mineralization via water changes and as well with the Wonder Shells I sent, which although many may disagree, I have found will extend the necessary time for water changes in un-filtered containers providing ammonia is not an issue (I performed some test on this in the 90s). I would consider a medicated bath with Methylene Blue, salt, and maybe one of these three meds; Nitrofurazone. Kanamyacin, Minocycline. For now I would hold off from treating the container with the possible exception of a relatively inert med such as Melafix.
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 7, 2009 11:50:34 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. I just read your article. She is at a steady temperature of 68-69 F right now. As soon I am sure that fish that was attacked a few weeks back is well enough (she is almost there), she will be added back to her old tank and Dawn will be heated.
The temperature is not 68 F in my house year around. It is about about 74-76 F in summer and similar around spring and fall. The container she is in is temporary. The tank she was in before was heated to 75 F. I will try to keep her as comfortable as I can for now.
I'm just wondering but are there any diseases that make a betta they have a swollen looking nose? I know you can't tell from the pictures (I'm sorry for the poor picture quality) but it certainly is there.
Thanks!
Renee
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Post by kagome on Feb 7, 2009 11:56:06 GMT -5
Renee, what setting are you using to take pictures of your fish? Do you have a close-up setting? Maybe this will help to get better pictures for future diagnosis.
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 7, 2009 19:46:16 GMT -5
I am trying. I used to take pictures on an auto setting. This time I tried it on a different setting. There are many pictures ettings on my camera but I don't know what they mean. They are just marked with a letter. The picture settings the camera has are auto, SCN, P, A, S, M, C. Any idea which one is best to use ot take pictures if you happen to know what those letters mean?
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 7, 2009 19:50:26 GMT -5
I also did a water change on all 12 containers today. I did a 75% on all of them. I will be doing about 20% in the middle of the week too now to help with redox/give my fish fresh water.
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Post by kagome on Feb 7, 2009 23:56:01 GMT -5
Renee, what kind of camera do you have, make and model? I'll see what I can dig up about the settings.
I hope everything goes well with your fish, I know you've been really concerned about your bettas.
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