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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 23, 2009 17:02:26 GMT -5
My betta Critique that I wrote about a week or so ago having a wound and not eating. It turns out it is not a wound (probably coloration) because it has not healed or gotten worse. But he is still not eating and lays on the bottom a lot. He sometimes goes to the surface to get air but that's about it. I have been doing almost daily water changes for him. I tried an epsom salt bath for him when I saw white waste that he was in the middle of making but was still had hours later so I figured it was constipation. After the bath he seemed better and was flaring at the other males a bit which is more normal for him. I gave him a second bath a few days later but it didn't seem to help much. He still is not eating. There is nothing visibly wrong with him other than he clamps his fins. I am really not sure what is wrong with him at this point.
I will try to get a picture of him later on today. My new battery charger just came in the mail today. If I put the battery in the right way (this charger is very complicated), I will be able to. if I incorrectly put it in I will have to try again.
Thanks!
Renee
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Post by Carl on Jan 23, 2009 17:28:38 GMT -5
This is kind of tricky, as obviously part of the problem is lack of nutrition (sometimes white feces are an indication of this as well as other potential issues).
With Marine Fish I will add vitamins and other nutrients to the bath water since they drink the water around them, this is readily, if accidentally taken in. HOWEVER this is where FW fish are more difficult, you can add some nutrients to the bath water, but little will get absorbed since this is more at a molecular level that will exclude larger nutrients, even if very tiny.
I have tried this too, and seen no positive results.
The other option (& not a good one IMO) is to VERY gently force feed with an eye dropper some Brine Shrimp soaked in Spirulina slurry, vitamins, minerals, & if possible omega 3 fatty acids.
I have had success with this (sometimes VERY good results), however the reason I state it is not a good option is that more than half the time the fish regurgitates the food, rendering this an exercise in futility. It may be worth a try though.
The other thought is to continue doing what you are and hopefully this will get him to a point where he will naturally take in food.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 23, 2009 20:05:52 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. I am uploading the a video I got of himas I type this. I moved his container around a bi and he started falring at the other males which is a good sign but a little later he was sluggish again.
I honestly doubt it is malnutrition. He was eating very well a few eeks ago. I fed him Thera Tropical fish food (tiny pellets) and Omega One betta food (flakes) before he stopped eating. I will try for the feeding using a dropper if this continues though I honestly do not want to stress him any more. If he's not eating in a few more days I will consider it. How do yu feed the fish with an eye dropper without causing too much stress? Also, how would I go about soaking brine shrimp in spirulina and obtaining the vitamins and fatty acids to soak?
Thanks for the help.
Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 23, 2009 20:21:32 GMT -5
I apologize for the wait. I am uploading the video with several other fish videos to PhotoBucket. It is currently only 39% done. I will probably have it done uploading in an hour or so. I'll post it as soon as it finishes.
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Post by Carl on Jan 23, 2009 20:27:55 GMT -5
Let me clarify as to malnutrition, I do not mean that previous feeding was the cause, only that currently he is not eating and therefore suffering from malnutrition. This is a common problem with fish (& other animals) that when sick they may refuse to eat, often at a time when they need nutrients most. A fast of 3-4 days is not a problem and actually can be beneficial, but much longer could be problematic. As to soaking the Brine Shrimp; the spirulina is simply a slurry of Spirulina 20 or similar flake food, then powdered Wonder Shells (just a little) or similar can suffice for minerals, and you can use human Omega 3 capsules and multi-vitamins and simply open them up and pour a little into your mixture.  Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 23, 2009 20:52:30 GMT -5
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Post by Carl on Jan 23, 2009 21:03:07 GMT -5
Beautiful fish Renee  *A slurry is like a thick VERY thick soup *Human Omega 3 is fine (Omega 3 is Omega 3 regardless of the source). I would add this to the slurry first since oils do not mix in water and the Omega 3 fats will adhere better to the Spirulina slurry * then add the frozen or FD Brine Shrimp He does look real weak and "droopy" Another thought after looking at him is Aquarisol or medicated wonder shells in the tank Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 23, 2009 21:27:51 GMT -5
I looked at Aquarisol and it says it is for protozoan parasites, ich, and gasping for air. I'm not sure how Aquarisol could help him since I'm pretty sure it is not an infection caused by protoazons or ich. His skin and appearance is normal aside from his sluggishness and clamped fins. If it had vitamins in it, that could help. Does Aquarisol contain vitamins and minerals?
I will order medicated wonder shells tomorrow since my mom is already in bed and I need her permission.
Also, with his current condition, would it still be beneficial to feed him with an eyedropper? I don't want to cause him too much stress that might make him worse.
Last (sorry for so many questions), but do you have any idea whjat is causing this? It happened suddenly, the day before, he was his active, normal self. The next day he was like this and he hasn't been getting worse or better since then. I know I said in a previous post that I didn't know what it was but now I am thinking maybe it was an injury of some sort.
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Post by Carl on Jan 23, 2009 23:22:55 GMT -5
I looked at Aquarisol and it says it is for protozoan parasites, ich, and gasping for air. I'm not sure how Aquarisol could help him since I'm pretty sure it is not an infection caused by protoazons or ich. His skin and appearance is normal aside from his sluggishness and clamped fins. If it had vitamins in it, that could help. Does Aquarisol contain vitamins and minerals? No Aquarisol does not have minerals, however it does help for sluggishness that is caused by unseen parasites. Since I cannot honestly say what the problem is that is one reaso for this suggestion, Aquarisol is medication that has been around for a long time, that many old timers still swear by.
• Ich
• Gasping for Air
• Protozoan Infections
• Sluggishness
• Excellent for use in freshwater quarantine tank for new fish, especially when combined with Methylene Blue (bare tank with sponge filter and no gravel is best)The medicated Wonder Shells have Aquarisol in them, but as well have more and in my humble opinion are a better wide spectrum product This is a toughy, as this is kind of a coin flip IMO, I would start with soaking the food and then offering to him naturally (often Omega 3 will enhance the palatability making the fish more inclined to eat Many possible causes, *from water conditions (which I doubt in your case), *parasites (usually in gills or gut for which Metronidazole will help, especially for the gut) *Age *Injury Carl |
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Post by kagome on Jan 23, 2009 23:53:56 GMT -5
I'm sorry that your fish is so sick. I know you really care about all of your fish and are trying to do your best for him. I love the pictures of him from when he was feeling better, he is a beautiful fish. I hope he starts eating soon, that is so nerve wracking.
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 24, 2009 11:07:22 GMT -5
Thanks so much for Kagome and Carl. I am doing my best with him.
I think its I probably from injury since she is only abou a 1 and 6 months old (since he was born). Maybe it is internal paraistes but why it happened so suddenly, I wouldn't know. He did have some white stuff growing on his plants I notcied after this happened which I got rid of by changing almost all his water, switching him another 1 gallon container, and starilizing the plants in hot water. I should be able to get the wonder shells later today. Rigth now my mom is not home. I'll do my best though to get them ordered today as soon as possible. I'll also talk to her about the Omega 3 tablets. WE may have them though we only may have Omega 6. Would either work?
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Post by Carl on Jan 24, 2009 11:36:27 GMT -5
No, Omega 6 is different than Omega 3; as well I recommend capsules which is how Omega 3 is usually sold since it is a fatty acid (see: Fish Nutrition; Fats ) Unlike humans, fish can generally make these essential fatty acids that play an important role in many bodily functions, however when weak, sick, etc. they often cannot. For some reason(that I need to research to verify) warm water fish have more trouble producing Omega 3 than cold water fish. Flaxseed oil is another source of Omega 3. I do plan do update this article in the near future to expand on this subject. Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 24, 2009 11:52:09 GMT -5
Thanks again Carl. But since I ahve never done this before, how much Omega 3 would I soak the food in and how much water would I use? I know we have flax seeds in the house. Would that work as well? I'm am going to soak the food and see if that will get him to eat.
I am going to install that heater in the container I bought to keep my betta containers to help heat the fish up. I was going to last week but we blew a circuit so the power wasn't working in the bathroom where my bettas are. Anyway, since it is fixed now I will. I'm sure that will help with his recovery.
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 24, 2009 12:39:21 GMT -5
I just set up the hjeater in the huge container to heat the 8 betta containers I am keeping in it. Unfortunately, when I poured the water in, it splashed off the tops of conatiners the bettas are in making a mess of a 1/3 gallon of water under the dresser, all over the bathroom floor and on some drawing from 10th grade I had laying around.
Anyway, my only concern is mold or scum building up in the huge container though there is no fish. However, since the 1 gallon betta containers are in it, when I feed I sometimes drop some food sometimes falls out of my hand and next to the containers, If this happens, the food will get in the big container's water and just sit there and rot. I will be performing water changes on this the large container but I certainly know how fast scum can build up. Any ideas on how to prevent this? I know there is no fish in there but I still want it to be kept clean. I'll keep you posted on how Critique does.
Thanks.
Renee
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Post by Carl on Jan 24, 2009 13:57:32 GMT -5
I am glad you noted the heater, as I TOTALLY missed this one. Lack of heater not only can make a fish sluggish, but can ruin an appetite and lower disease resistance.
I do not have an exact formula for soaking the Brine Shrimp, generally about a few scrapings of Wonder Shell, about 1/2 capsule of Omega 3 oil (the flax seed must be in a liquid form as well), and either half a capsule or 1/2 ground/powdered multi-vitamin
Unless I am misreading your last question, the answer to me seems to be vacuuming the areas in question and placing something over the containners to prevent spills.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 24, 2009 14:12:10 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. Unfortunately, the way I have it set up, it will be hard to vaccum. Oh well, I'll figure it out. As for the multi-vitamin, should it be an human multi-vitamin? I'd imagine some of them would contain added flavors or additives that are harmful to fish.
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Post by Carl on Jan 24, 2009 17:22:40 GMT -5
Thanks Carl. Unfortunately, the way I have it set up, it will be hard to vaccum. Oh well, I'll figure it out. As for the multi-vitamin, should it be an human multi-vitamin? I'd imagine some of them would contain added flavors or additives that are harmful to fish. Yes not additives, otherwise a vitamin is a vitamin. Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 24, 2009 18:15:27 GMT -5
So, I can't soak the food in a vitamin with additives or can I? Sorry I didn't quite catch what you meant.
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Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 24, 2009 18:26:22 GMT -5
nothing with added flavor or sugar....any adult multi is fine.
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 24, 2009 20:34:48 GMT -5
Ok, I'll try that tomorrow and see if he eats it. I'll use his pellet food so it will absorb as much of the minerals/vitamnins as possible.
In the mean time, I have been doing a lot of thinking on how to help this fish. I realized that fish are more likely to go after moving live food than flake food for instance. I still have brine shrimp eggs. Maybe if I hatched some seperately and then put them in his tank, he would eat them. If I gave him enough it might keep him going for a little while though I know it is supposed to be a treat. It might also get jump start his appetite. Let me know what you guys think. I think I just this may be a very good idea.
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