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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 28, 2009 18:08:23 GMT -5
how would I soak his flake food or pellets in Omega 3 without them dissolving or making the water oily? Renee Whoops, you alreayd answered that in a previos post. Sorry, must have skipped over it. I've been overloaded with these fish lately. Make note that this is a different question. You said that soaking would work for live foods. By any chance would soaking freeze dried Krill work for feeding if I only soaked it in Omega 3? (I'm not sure if it would make the water oily if I did that and added it directly to my betta container.) Thanks for all the time you have spent on this. Renee
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Post by Carl on Jan 28, 2009 19:02:48 GMT -5
Although not as good as live of frozen, using the Omega 3 or slurry is still better than nothing (live also provides "action" for the fish). The oil aspect is actually more difficult with the live or frozen food due to water content, which is why the use of minerals and spirulina is important to absorb the oils and then "transport" the oil to the food you are soaking. However with any FD or dry food, you can directly open a capsule onto the food which is likely to readily absorb the oils.
Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 29, 2009 16:30:19 GMT -5
I'm going to feed him krill soaked in fish oil today.
Also, I just got the wonder shells! Thanks Carl!
I added the medicated one and the regular wondershell to Critique's 1 gallon.
I'm not sure how to split up the large one. I think i will start by putting a bit in the male guppy that is having trouble swimming upward and part in my 10 gallon goldfish tank with Oranda who still has the lenses of its eyes sticking out a little but not getting any worse.
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Post by Carl on Jan 29, 2009 17:31:45 GMT -5
I use a large standard Screw driver and place it dead center on the Wonder shell on a hard sirface; then a I hit the screw driver head with a hammer. Usualy one or two hits will split it in two. Good Luck! Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 29, 2009 20:25:14 GMT -5
I used a dull pair of scissors and it worked. ;D
Anyway, I put some fish oil on the piece of krill I gave the betta. Then I realized it was way too much and rinsed it a bit under the tap. The piece of krill was very large but I knew he wouldn't eat that much if he did eat) I put it in the water for about an hour and it was untouched when I took it out. But the water looked a little oily from the fish oil. I added some water to try to bring down the concentration of fish oil(the betta's container was not all the way full). But I am wondering, if I do this every day and some fish oil gets in the betta's container, will it hurt the betta or cause many water quality problems? The betta has not filter or aerator since it is just not economical to install filters and aerators on the 10 different betta containers I have now. Anyway, the fish oil is my main concern. I will certianly use a smaller peice of krill next time since I know it probably brings up the ammonia just sitting in there for an hour.
Thanks!
Renee
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 30, 2009 15:22:10 GMT -5
Good news! Today Critique (though far from back to normal) is more active than he was previously! Also, I added a bit of the regular wondershell to my male guppy tank yesterday and today all the fish have brighter than usual colors! It's a great sign though the male guppy still is having the swimming problem. He is not breathing rapidly though. Perhaps in time, he will go back to normal.
I'm still curious about the fish oil that got in my betta's water form teh krill. Will it hurt teh fish or raise the ammonia. I know you are busy so no need to reply immedietly.
Thanks!
Renee
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Post by Carl on Jan 30, 2009 15:40:34 GMT -5
You can soak any oils off the surface using a paper towel floated on the surface. As to the ammonia, you have to have nitrogen in a compound to raise ammonia, so this cannot happen directly (altough this can lend itself to bacteria feeding on the oils thus raising ammonia indirectly) Here is a paste from my Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Article: "HOWEVER sugars, carbohydrates (starches) and most fats (fats are a form of lipids, generally without nitrogen atoms though) do not contain nitrogen atoms and therefore CANNOT directly contribute to the nitrogen cycle of your aquarium or pond. As well different animal and plant matter have varying amounts of nitrogen containing molecules (with plants in general containing less than animals). The few lipids that contain nitrogen atoms generally have few, and are often less of a factor as well."I am glad the Wonder Shells are helping a little as well Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 30, 2009 16:24:47 GMT -5
Thanks for letting me know. I'll use a paper towel from now on to soak up the oils.
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 1, 2009 11:40:16 GMT -5
OMG! Crtique ate this morning on his own! He didn't eat all of it but he didn't spit it out either! I'm so happy he finally ate! He still is sluggish, clamping his fins and resting a lot but I'd say this is a great sign he is doing better!
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Post by Carl on Feb 1, 2009 16:10:23 GMT -5
OMG! Crtique ate this morning on his own! He didn't eat all of it but he didn't spit it out either! I'm so happy he finally ate! He still is sluggish, clamping his fins and resting a lot but I'd say this is a great sign he is doing better! Good news Renee! Give yourself a pat on the back from me! Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 1, 2009 17:43:36 GMT -5
Thanks! He didn't eat all of hid food but he did have a few bites. He was also eyeing the surface and following me a little signaling he was hungry. Unfortunately, he's pretty stressed again because I had to take out the food he left over. But I'm sure he ate the some of it though!
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Post by Carl on Feb 2, 2009 11:07:34 GMT -5
Thanks! He didn't eat all of hid food but he did have a few bites. He was also eyeing the surface and following me a little signaling he was hungry. Unfortunately, he's pretty stressed again because I had to take out the food he left over. But I'm sure he ate the some of it though! Renee; try and not get too stressed over your fish seeming stress over your removal of un-eaten foods in his tank. It is natural for a fish or many animals to be frightened after your intrussion into his/her environment (or from handling such as a bath). If you let this bother you too much, this will not allow you to do what is necessary for your fish over fear of frightening him. Keep in mind that you cannot read your human emotions into a fish, this is not to say thet your fish do not respond to you, but that the responses are much more basic than yours. Please do not take this as harsh, but I think this important to relate to your finned pets in a way that will allow you to care for them properly. I know that I am not always successful in treatment of sick fish, as often are many human Doctors with vastly better equipment (and training) at their disposal. I certainly get frustrated and sad for my clients, but I could not let it stop me from doing what I knew was best since most clients contacted me ONLY when there were problems (no one called me to tell me that their fish were doing great). Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 2, 2009 16:15:28 GMT -5
The only problem with that is by the nexty day if they haven't eaten anything, there is fuzzy stuff growing on it, even if the container was spotless the day before and there were only a few tiny pieces of food uneaten! I actually had this happen again today but with the fish named Kittwang that was having trouble swimming upward. There were about 4 tiny pieces of uneaten food with fuzzy stuff on them from whne I fed her this morning. She had almost fully recovered and then I found her gills were swollen (guessing not enough air, a week ago there was also ammonia problems before I did a complet water change on it) because I had filled her container to the top and for some reason, her swimming problem had come back and she was not able to reach the surface (they try to access the surface constantly when they have this swimming problem for some reason). She seems ok now. I added wondershell, did a complete water change for her, and made sure the water level was very low.
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Post by eve on Feb 2, 2009 16:44:13 GMT -5
may i ask how many times you do waterchanges and how much of it you do change?
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 2, 2009 17:18:17 GMT -5
I do 75% water changes once per week normally but with the fish that have had this problem, it has been a lot more because they haven't seem eating their food so their 1 gallon gets fuzzy stuff growing in it (which I don't think helps the fish). For the fish that have had this problem, I'd say I've been doing a complete water change for them twice per week on average. I only do so much to keep fuzzy stuff that grows on uneaten fish food, the fish's dropping, and just on anything that has been sitting a while. I have been dealing with it in my betta tanks only since last Spring when this fuzzy stuff and maybe soemthing else as wel, started killing fry. It never grew on the fish, just in their water. I have tried lots of meds, none of which have worked. I even tried a combination of a bunch of medications hoping that ould stop it with no fish before I bleached the tank but it never worked.
I do not have this problem with my guppies or goldfish, just the bettas. It is very fustrating. I once had a betta when I was 12 that lived 2 1/2 years with me. I just did 25% a week and 50% if it was really dirty and I never had this problem.
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Post by eve on Feb 2, 2009 17:25:32 GMT -5
as far as i understand your tank setups the guppy as well as the goldfish tanks are filtered, so there you dont' have the problem, because the tank water is circulated at all times
also to my understanding, your betta tanks are not filtered
i dont' know, but if i may suggest here something, and please dont' take that the wrong way, but you should really get some circulation into your tanks
i suggest that you buy a pump which is a bit higher rated, like for a 20 gallon tank as far as i know, there are valves which can be bought to divide more then one airtubing from the pump
i would highly suggest doing that
or buy a 5-10 gallon bump, and divide it by 2 for, 2 of your tanks just put on an airstone and put it into your betta tanks
that way your water is at least circulated at all times i think it would improve your betta's homes immense, instead of medicating them all the time
also i would recommend doing a 25% water change every 2-3 days, instead of 1 complete one once a week, try to use an airtubing to siphon out the dirt from the bottom, or use a turkeybuster to remove any dirt from the bottom
and do a bigger water change once a week, like a 50% one
but i wouldnt' do a complete water change, unless you have to get rid of medications
my 2 cents to that situation
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 2, 2009 17:56:14 GMT -5
Well, I have 12 betta containers right now and I simply cannot afford to get circulation on each and every one. I just spoke to Carl on the phone and he said to test the water on 1 container daily until I figure out how often to dow ater changes.
For the meds, I normally added them when the fish were not there, to try to eradicate the white stuff and then put the fish back in. But that was at least 6 months ago. I do not add often add medication to my betta's containers and larger tanks now. Now I am at the point where I am cleaning and trying to live with the trying to getrid of white stuff without medication.
Also Carl mentioned that it might help get things under control with this stuff growing if I test the water and observe the parameters over time. Based on the assumption that it has to do with water quality, changing the right amount of water at the rigth times, the white stuff should clear up. This is what Carl suggested.
You also gave very good advice but I feel like I need to get to the heart of this matter. If I test, I will be much more likely to figure out exactly what is going on. Thanks for your input. It is much appreciated. If I wasn't testing, I would surely follow your advice on this since it is also excellent.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Renee
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Post by eve on Feb 2, 2009 18:09:24 GMT -5
you don't have to get them all at once
for me that was a gradual integration for your tanks to make the life of your bettas better in the long run
12 containers must also take up a lot of space, i don't know how about looking around for a 20 gallon tank, maybe you can get one for free and divide the tank in compartments for maybe 6 of your betta's
a 20 gallon shouldn't take up more space then 6 - 1 gallon containers
you could easily filtrate a tank
also this is of course just a thought
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Post by Carl on Feb 2, 2009 19:25:21 GMT -5
Renee, Eve does raise good points, and we both know your financial situation as well. I have used just the divided tank method Eve mentioned as well (for more than Bettas too). You could also simply start slow with a small sponge filter or similar and use a multi outlet air pump and split the air from each outlet. For instance, a Million Air 300 air pump has two outlets which can each be split giving you 4 outlets for ONLY $7.99 (that is $2 per outlet) In the meantime, even the small Wonder Shells will help you as I have documented higher disolved oxygen when used in bowls as bedsides improving minerals important to Redox, they also aerate while disolving. As a re-cap of our phone conversation*I have found in my own tests that as long as all influences (feeding, bio load, filtration or lack there of) that you can VERY accurately predict your water parameters *Test one container/bowl as a representative of all (assuming all are similarly fed with the same bio load per gallon) *Test ammonia EVERY day (GH and other parameters once per week or twice per week) *Then determine your water change frequency based on your ammonia in particular (in larger filtered tanks I would use nitrates and GH more than ammonia as ammonia should NOT be influx ina healthy tank that is properly filtered). *For intance if your ammonia rises above 1 ppm in 4 days, I would change water about every two days (figuring a 50% water change). If it took 8 days, a 4 day water change interval is necessary. If just 2 days, you may have to change water everyday. *Hopefully in the near future you can use Eve's suggestion as well. I will try and help you to this point as well. I wish I sent you more small wonder shells so that you had one per container, but you can break that large one I gave you into small fragments so that each container has at least a fragment. BTW, please do not take me cutting short on your phone call as me not wanting to help, Monday's are crazy for me as I get 4 times the email and phone calls and as well 40% of my weeks shipping always goes out on Mondays. Carl
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Post by goldenpuon on Feb 2, 2009 19:46:54 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Unfortunately half of my bettas in containers are males. If I put them in a 20 together they would beat each other up and the females would be scared into hiding. I think I will leave them as is but try to make them as happy as possible. Most of my bettas are actually not sick. It's only 1 out of 6 of my males bettas, Critique who is not doing well. The rest beg for food like crazy. The other females are in isolation after being beaten up by a female that also had to be isolated for her agression. Others are in isolation so they can recover from who knows what is causing them to be stuck at the bottom.
I will follow the steps you mentioned Carl. I honestly wish I could get filtration/aeration for every one but right now, I am basically broke as it is getting upgrades for my fish. I want my fish to have the best honestly. I am going to get rid of a bunch of my guppy fry once they grow a bit bigger and give them to a petstore. I have way too many and I'm spending way too much time on them lately, so much I am lacking time for myself. Not that they don't matter but it hurts the quality of the care I give them if there is too many and also leaves me with tons of water changes/maintance to do every day after school.
I'm doing my best I can now. I will follow Carl's recommendations.
Renee
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