cheri
Full Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by cheri on Oct 2, 2014 14:34:07 GMT -5
I just finished reading some about the frog moss. I'll buy some the next time I have to order.(:
Since I don't use a HOB, I'd like to try it on a piece of driftwood. Does it turn the water tea colored, like Bio-lif? I read in the article about 'natural tannins'?
In Carls article he states how quickly the moss reduces the KH in the tank. Wow!
Decided to start with a 2.5 gallon tank with a Hydro Sponge, that's already seeded. Also, added 2 drops of ammonia, (no liquefied fish food for the ready.) Watching for the cycle... Nervous about using the small tanks. I would really like to use bigger tanks for the fish and for cycling, only there isn't enough space to safely set one up. So...with excited anticipation the bettas will be living in healthier water, shortly.
Thank you.
Cheri
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Oct 2, 2014 15:43:04 GMT -5
When I tested the Frog/Pillow Moss, I found it produced much less yellow water, but also dropped KH & pH at a faster rate, so I would start with a small amount.
Carl
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 2, 2014 17:34:34 GMT -5
I just finished reading some about the frog moss. I'll buy some the next time I have to order.(: Since I don't use a HOB, I'd like to try it on a piece of driftwood. Does it turn the water tea colored, like Bio-lif? I read in the article about 'natural tannins'? In Carls article he states how quickly the moss reduces the KH in the tank. Wow! Decided to start with a 2.5 gallon tank with a Hydro Sponge, that's already seeded. Also, added 2 drops of ammonia, (no liquefied fish food for the ready.) Watching for the cycle... Nervous about using the small tanks. I would really like to use bigger tanks for the fish and for cycling, only there isn't enough space to safely set one up. So...with excited anticipation the bettas will be living in healthier water, shortly. Thank you. Cheri I thought about using the frog moss this way too. I thought it would look nice. The problem I thought of though, is that over time, the moss turns brown and starts to come apart. It's not really going to turn your water brown, but the moss will. I like it in a HOB, because I know water is passing through it, and it's just not a piece of moss in the tank. My suggestion, if you are going this route is to really secure the moss down to the driftwood. Maybe will a couple/few rubber bands. I can just see it that over time, you'll have moss floating around in your tank. If you are using a Hydro Sponge, you could put it in between the two strainers too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 23:30:34 GMT -5
Cheri, I just went through the exercise of cycling a 5.5g tank fish-less. Needed a tank set up but also wanted to see what impact various things have while no fish involved.
I got the pillow moss. I hoped it would look nice in the tank, too. I turned brown within a week or so. You can read all about it under causes/concerns: PH/KH/BUFFERS Help Please. My bet is that your PH will bounce too.. shoot up.. but then return.. I pulled the moss after a couple weeks b/c although it took the PH down from 7.8 to 7.4, it also took the KH down to 2.5-3. Meanwhile my other 5.5g with betta (running longer) sits at PH 7.4 with a better KH of 5 with no moss. Hoped to learn how to have a more stable KH without PH through the roof .. but it's tough, small tanks are just so unstable.... you also might take a look at my recent experience with betta and filter. same section, Help with Diva Betta rejecting HOB. No conclusions drawn after all but just to be aware... Good luck with all.
ps did you find out what's plaguing your B-Blue? I hope things can turn around there, you've worked your heart out trying to help.
|
|
cheri
Full Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by cheri on Oct 3, 2014 12:53:33 GMT -5
Hi,
Thank you all, for your experiences and information!
I like that the frog moss doesn't darken the water, unlike the Bio-lif. With the new information given me, I don't want to mess with the moss, for now anyways. I use fishing line to tie plants onto the driftwood like the java ferns, and nanas. I just want to stay with the hardy plants!
Seapetal, This is the same dilemma I have with our water, high PH 8.0/8.2. This is why I use 40% RO water, replenished. It helps with the PH but it still stays around 7.8/8.0. Yipes. Eventually, the bettas tanks will drop PH to about 7.6/7.8. and the KH about 3/4dkh. I am guilty, I've chased the PH over the years, and the bettas are the ones who were hurt by this. So, finally I'm staying with the higher PH. The nitrates are so high, the new water is 10+, AFTER it's mixed with the RO! Such crummy water here. I'm going to read your articles, now. I hope that things are going well for your betta(s) and for you, as well... Try as we do to give them healthy,happy,homes, my bettas always do worse after I bring them home and just go down hill. For myself, it becomes consuming in time and concern, but most off all it's very sad not being able to enjoy their lives being healthy. Thank you for asking about B-blue. His fins are looking 'skinny', and the color loss on his body well it now has some blue color back, but even though SOMETHING is wrong with him...he doesn't know it, he swims about happily, defending his territory just in case he sees betta Kim or if I get too close!
Thank you all!((:
Cheri
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 3, 2014 16:53:48 GMT -5
Your being to hard on yourself!
Nitrates at 10+ are excellent... It gets really hard to get much better than this. This is what my Nitrates are right from the tap.
The moss is not a difficult one. I've just learned what my pH is without the moss (7.8ish), then add a chuck and see how the pH is affected. I just make sure to add about the same amount each time (after it all dissolves). You really can just make sure the pH stays steady, even with 7.8. If it's ever 8.0+ that's a problem. I just try to stay around 7.4/7.5. This is just preference, and really why I use the moss.
Adding it to the strainer of the HS is not a bad idea either. I know there's an employee at AAP that does the same thing, cause he does run a HOB.
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 3, 2014 18:11:35 GMT -5
I'm going to add, that for a tank under 10 gals, I would actually suggest Atkinson's Betta Spa. Moss can be used, but I would recommend it for tanks over 10 gal. Something to consider.
|
|
cheri
Full Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by cheri on Oct 6, 2014 12:54:10 GMT -5
I'm going to add, that for a tank under 10 gals, I would actually suggest Atkinson's Betta Spa. Moss can be used, but I would recommend it for tanks over 10 gal. Something to consider. HI,
So jazzed... I was finally able to 'quote' in, your comment.
A couple questions on the Betta Spa: Does the Atkinson's Betta Spa contain the same potency of medicinal benefits as the Almond leaves, or the Bio-lif? Personally, I don't really like the dark color that the AL make but I like everything else the ALs' create for the bettas. What I do want is for the bettas to have the medicinal benefit, to help against Columaris, and help with lowering the PH.
Is the recommendation of Atkinson's Betta Spa, because it is a simpler, more accurate, dosing method than either the Bio-lif or Almond leaf? If so, than if the Betta Spa will produce the medicinal benefits, than, I AM ALL FOR IT!!! (:
It would be nice and good to use 5.5 gal tanks for the bettas. As previously said, the money, and the space to place them just isn't there. ): If keeping a 2.5 gal tank with a sponge filter is going to be too difficult, than it may come down to just running air and keeping some Matrix only in their tanks.
Have a good one! Cheri
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Oct 6, 2014 15:00:50 GMT -5
Unfortunately no, which is why I was sad to see this excellent product go away
Yes, this is a positive of this product.
Carl
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 6, 2014 23:58:36 GMT -5
I'm going to add, that for a tank under 10 gals, I would actually suggest Atkinson's Betta Spa. Moss can be used, but I would recommend it for tanks over 10 gal. Something to consider. HI,
So jazzed... I was finally able to 'quote' in, your comment.
A couple questions on the Betta Spa: Does the Atkinson's Betta Spa contain the same potency of medicinal benefits as the Almond leaves, or the Bio-lif? Personally, I don't really like the dark color that the AL make but I like everything else the ALs' create for the bettas. What I do want is for the bettas to have the medicinal benefit, to help against Columaris, and help with lowering the PH.
Is the recommendation of Atkinson's Betta Spa, because it is a simpler, more accurate, dosing method than either the Bio-lif or Almond leaf? If so, than if the Betta Spa will produce the medicinal benefits, than, I AM ALL FOR IT!!! (:
It would be nice and good to use 5.5 gal tanks for the bettas. As previously said, the money, and the space to place them just isn't there. ): If keeping a 2.5 gal tank with a sponge filter is going to be too difficult, than it may come down to just running air and keeping some Matrix only in their tanks.
Have a good one! Cheri
Yah! You quoted! What I know if that the product does not make a dark color in the water. I use it in a 2 gal for my betta and it's not bad. It is easy dosing which is nice. For my betta, it's a smaller tank. a simple cartridge filter with some matrix and the Atkinson. Works well.
|
|
cheri
Full Member
Posts: 55
|
Post by cheri on Oct 7, 2014 13:30:28 GMT -5
For my betta, it's a smaller tank. a simple cartridge filter with some matrix and the Atkinson. Works well. Devon, What is the cartridge filter that is used in your small tank? I don't know what a cartridge filter is but will read up on it in Carls' articles on 'types of filtration'. Is it an internal or HOB? I'd rather use this filter, since it works in your small tank. I want to get these bettas into safe water conditions and stop all the methods of trying to 'find' what works. (because so far...nothing has).
Carl, Thank you for answering my questions on the AL's and frog moss. It is sad that the Bio-lif has been discontinued. I suppose that I will be ordering the Atkinsons Betta Spa, pretty soon. Unfortunately, I need to use something where dosing is simple and not easy to miscalculate. {:
Blessings!
Cheri
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Oct 8, 2014 9:58:27 GMT -5
For my betta, it's a smaller tank. a simple cartridge filter with some matrix and the Atkinson. Works well. Devon, What is the cartridge filter that is used in your small tank? I don't know what a cartridge filter is but will read up on it in Carls' articles on 'types of filtration'. Is it an internal or HOB? I'd rather use this filter, since it works in your small tank. I want to get these bettas into safe water conditions and stop all the methods of trying to 'find' what works. (because so far...nothing has).
It came with the small tank. I don't know the brand :/ It just holds a small 2x4 filter cart and passes air around it by an air pump. Makes just a little water movement. I placed volcanic rock around the cart. for some extra filtration. It sits inside the tank right under the water line. Sorry I couldn't be more specific.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 10:44:48 GMT -5
Just an add on here..... Watch for Maracyn Plus to become available again. In looking at the photos, I know that medication would have healed your Betta. Maracyn Plus is soooooooo much easier to dose than the powder medicines. Maracyn Plus acts like no other medication. It will be available from Fritz Aquatics soon (mid October?): www.fritzaquatics.com/Maracyn Plus has less side effects of any other medication I tried and has healed/cured far more. I plan to order it directly from Fritz when available as it make take longer for stores/distributors to get it. I had enough left in a bottle to treat one of my Goyder River Rainbows.... He made it, but I waited too long to "take a leap of faith" (medication was expired) so there is tissue loss around his mouth. I feel it is too tender for him to go back to the 75 gallon. It is a good thing I did use the Maracyn Plus as the medicine I ordered would not have helped treat Columnaris (I am certain that is what it was). I ordered Erythromycin. I did follow up with the Erythromycin (which "killed" the bio filter -- Maracyn Plus does not kill the bio filter - Never had an issue losing my bio filter when I used Maracyn Plus). Yes, all of the Mardel medications will be available from Fritz....and hopefully available in stores soon.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Oct 8, 2014 11:23:56 GMT -5
This is definitely one of Mardel's better product, much better than the over used and over recommended Maracyn, HOWEVER it should be noted that its number one ingredient is Sulfamethazine (14.5 mg Sulfamethazine to 2.9 mg Trimethoprim). So if any fish had an allergy to Sulfa based drugs in other products they would with this product as well. What sets this product above some others is the use of Trimethoprim which has excellent bacteriostatic properties against common pathogens such as Aeromonas. This is definitely a worth while alternative to the Furan/Kanamycin combination, but it should not be recommended as a safer alternative to other sulfa treatments. In fact my tests between this and Aquatronics blend that had four sulfas found slightly lower cure rates and not better negative reactions
In fact this product has less benefit to use as a buffer for products such as Malachite Green and still should not be used with Copper based medications.
The claim its has less side effects of any other medication is simply not true
Carl
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:51:07 GMT -5
>> HOWEVER it should be noted that its number one ingredient is Sulfamethazine (14.5 mg Sulfamethazine to 2.9 mg Trimethoprim). So if any fish had an allergy to Sulfa based drugs in other products they would with this product as well.
Yes, I have found this out the hard way, too --- hence I only use it in a hospital tank now. I had no choice back in 2011. I had to dose the entire tank. I am pretty sure some of the fish didn't survive because of the Maracyn Plus. It was the second round of treatment that got them.... but without the second round, I would have lost more. I would have needed another 75 gallon (or at least a 50 gallon) as a hospital tank. I watched in horror for two days - not eating or sleeping - researching all I could online - as I saw the Furan2 do nothing. I overnight shipped a bottle of Maracyn Plus as I didn't have enough at the time.
In time, I may give the Furan/Kanamycin another try - in a hospital tank situation. I gave my Kanamycin away - and tossed out the Furan2.
My claim to "less side effects" - means less mystery deaths. I had more mystery deaths when I used Furan2. I should be more careful what I write (smile). My experience was in no way scientific.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Oct 8, 2014 11:57:47 GMT -5
Here is a quote for Aquarium Medications Part 2; Trimethoprim Contraindications
*Can be very harsh to nitrifying bacteria in an aquarium, do not over dose and use only in well established aquariums. *Can cause Thrombocytopenia (lowering of blood platelets), so this is a poor choice if fish have large wounds or are suffering from septicemia. A better choice then would be a pure Sulfa product or other medication combination.Since Trimethoprim is the other ingredient in this Mardel medications, we need to be aware of its Contraindications too. This again is not to knock this product, as it one of the best for Pseudomonas infections that cause mild fins and tail rot, but it is not necessarily a replacment for all other sulfa drugs or other combinations. This also makes the point while I am so adamant about knowing the ingredients as this is always the starting point of any scientific discussion. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#trimethoprimCarl
|
|