Fish Recommendations Needed...

[parker002]

This an offshoot of another post I had, based on some recommendations that were made to me.

everythingaquatic.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=questions&thread=1943

Long story short - I need to add fish to my tank. I have a gender imbalance.

My tank is 55G and my fish are as follows.

Male Livebearers:
1 regular Platy (black)
1 dwarf Platy (orange sunburst)
1 fancy guppy (leopard spots, gold and black)
1 lyretail swordtail (brown with light blue tail fin)

Femail Livebearers:
2 regular Platies (one orange, one black with white/orange speckles)
1 dwarf Platy (orange sunburst)
1 lyretail swordtail (brown)

Other fish in the tank:
1 x Serpae Tetra (red)
3 x White Skirt Tetra (white)
1 x Danio (orange)
3 x Spotted Cory Cats (white with black spots)
1 x small Pleco (3", mottled brown)

The reason I listed all the fish with their color is that my wife wants to add more colorful fish to the tank. She says my fish are boring.

So what would everyone recommend? I really don't want more guppies, but I haven't seen alot of platies that are highly colorful. I'm guessing she wants something that's actually BLUE since she also said we should get a betta. (can I even put a betta in my tank?)

[Carl]

One similar fish to a guppy that comes to mind is an Endlers Livebearer (See: Fish Profiles; Endlers Livebearer)

As a a Betta, I have successfully kept Bettas in tanks of your size and with similar mix of fish. However I have also had other fish nip at the Betta in on a few occasions, there seems to be less of a problem when I provide lots of floating live or fake vegetation for the Betta.

Hopefully others can share their experiences in keeping Bettas in similar aquarium set ups.

Carl

[kagome]

I have kept bettas with similar fish and they did great, but I agree with Carl that you have to make sure the the betta doesn't get picked on since they are slow moving. You also might want to consider some of the different varieties of gouramies. But you have to be careful with them as well because sometimes they can be aggressive. I've had some that were the most peaceful fish in the world but I've also had some that were practically homicidal. I'd also look into adding a school of Praecox rainbow fish. Very colorful, don't get huge, aren't very aggressive, and they're active and very interesting.

[parker002]

Thanks for the recommendation - the rainbow fish look very interesting.

Unfortunately, this morning my pleco is acting sick and won't eat, so I've got to figure that out first.

[Carl]

Nov 3, 2009 8:57:24 GMT -5 parker002 said:

Thanks for the recommendation - the rainbow fish look very interesting.

Unfortunately, this morning my pleco is acting sick and won't eat, so I've got to figure that out first.

Any specific symptoms?

Carl

[parker002]

Nov 3, 2009 10:09:17 GMT -5 Carl said:

Nov 3, 2009 8:57:24 GMT -5 parker002 said:

Thanks for the recommendation - the rainbow fish look very interesting.

Unfortunately, this morning my pleco is acting sick and won't eat, so I've got to figure that out first.

Any specific symptoms?

Carl

In general, he moves around the tank quite a bit and prefers to hang out upside down in a couple of the ornaments.

For the past 24 hours, he's lying in the substrate in an open area and doesn't move outside of moving water through his gills. I tried to nudge him this morning and he swam very erratically, almost like he was convulsing, but only about 4 inches before he stopped and layed still again.

I dropped an algae wafer right next to his mouth and not only did he ignore it, he sat still while the other fish picked it apart right in front of him. Some of them even touched him during the process and he didn't move.

Over the past two weeks, he's started swimming upside-down at the surface when I feed flake. He's not doing that now, obviously, but I'm wondering if he's starving. I've had him for almost 3 months and he hasn't grown much, if at all.

[Carl]

Definitely not good symptoms

How long have you had him and how old do you suspect he is?

These symptoms can be for more than one pathogen or problem (including a weak or older fish with no specific disorder).

Starting with gut problems, Aeromonas Bacteria can cause this problem, but when it gets to this stage often there is little that can be done other than prevention from other fish.

Saprolegnia and internal fungus such as Ichthyophonus (NOT Ich) can also cause similar symptoms, but Ichthyophonus is both less common but also very difficult to treat.

See: Aeromonas Treatment/Prevention
AQuarium Answers; Ichthyophonus

Carl

[parker002]

Nov 3, 2009 15:15:58 GMT -5 Carl said:

Definitely not good symptoms

How long have you had him and how old do you suspect he is?

These symptoms can be for more than one pathogen or problem (including a weak or older fish with no specific disorder).

Starting with gut problems, Aeromonas Bacteria can cause this problem, but when it gets to this stage often there is little that can be done other than prevention from other fish.

Saprolegnia and internal fungus such as Ichthyophonus (NOT Ich) can also cause similar symptoms, but Ichthyophonus is both less common but also very difficult to treat.

See: Aeromonas Treatment/Prevention
AQuarium Answers; Ichthyophonus

Carl

Unfortunately, he was dead when I got home from work.

I told my wife that I think it's karma. I didn't really want the guppies, and 1 by 1, they're dying. I didn't really want the pleco (I don't ultimately want a 12" or larger fish in my tank) and now he too is dead. I really don't know how old he was - he was about 3" long when I bought him at the LFS about 3 months ago and he was still only about 3" long today when he died.

My other fish don't display any outward signs of disease or distress, so I hate to start giving them medicine as a preventative.

[Carl]

Sorry you lost the Plec too, since he was only about 3" I doubt age was an issue.

As well I do not think you need to treat at this point, however since it is quite possible that you have an opportunistic infection in your tank, try and do as much preventative maintenance as possible.

If you follow the steps in the article below, I have documented much lower mortality rates with the fish I have kept. All steps is best, but that is not always possible:

Aquarium Disease Prevention

Carl

[corycatwoman]

sorry about the plec.. and other recomendations for a 55 gallon tank with a majority of live bearers. would be some opaline gourami. or if you feel pair or trio of them could be too large for what you arleady have. you can try the dwarf powder blue goruami aswell they can be colorful and they are not live bearers which im not sure if your trying to avoid or trying to continue but with my experience 1 or 2 species is more then enough lol. babies babies babies. id look into some of the larger tetra forms. the flame von rio comes to mind.

[parker002]

I think we're going to get a betta, 2 more cory cats, and some combination of 4 more female livebearers (which will put the male/female ratio at 2:1 vs. 1:1).

After that, how many more could/should I add?

[parker002]

Anyone? Buehler?

[goldenpuon]

When you say livebearers, do you mean platies? Guppies are livebearers and I know you said you didn't want any. But please bear in mind, that if you get a livebearer (notably a prolific breeder), you will end up with MANY babies. Many livebearers are often pregnant when you buy them and certainly with males, around, it won't be long before you have a bunch of fry.

It is pretty general though and mainly was to do with guppies, platies, etc. I do not know if all livebearers are prolific breeders or not so don't assume they all are.

Hope that helps.

Renee

[Carl]

Nov 3, 2009 23:28:39 GMT -5 parker002 said:

I think we're going to get a betta, 2 more cory cats, and some combination of 4 more female livebearers (which will put the male/female ratio at 2:1 vs. 1:1).

After that, how many more could/should I add?

There is much that goes into stocking questions, and much of it subjective due in part to unique fish personalities, but also areas such as aquarium decorations, water parameters, maintenance, and filtration.
I would think you could had more livebearers, depending upon type (Swords are not as prolific a breeder as goldenpuon noted, but tend to need much more room and are generally more aggressive, but this too is a generalization).

Could you remind us/me what your filters are or provide a picture of this tank to see how it is landscaped/decorated?

Sorry if our answers were not very specific, but this is an area that I in particular look at each tank on a tank by tank basis, even for my maintenance clients.

This article is a little off subject, but still may be helpful in stocking decisions:
Aquarium Answers; Tank Size, Stocking

Carl

[parker002]

Nov 5, 2009 15:36:50 GMT -5 goldenpuon said:

When you say livebearers, do you mean platies? Guppies are livebearers and I know you said you didn't want any. But please bear in mind, that if you get a livebearer (notably a prolific breeder), you will end up with MANY babies. Many livebearers are often pregnant when you buy them and certainly with males, around, it won't be long before you have a bunch of fry.

It is pretty general though and mainly was to do with guppies, platies, etc. I do not know if all livebearers are prolific breeders or not so don't assume they all are.

Hope that helps.

Renee

Sorry.

I meant "livebearers" in terms of the fish I have now - lyretails, platies, and dwarf platies - but specifically excluding more guppies.

And yes, one of my female platies, now an adult almost 7 months old, was born in the 10 gallon tank. We watched her from the time she was about the size of the head of a pin!

The dwarf platy can have up to 40 babies at a time, but since we don't use a breeder net, they very rarely survive. We look at it as just being part of nature.

[fishfever]

Nov 3, 2009 23:28:39 GMT -5 parker002 said:

I think we're going to get a betta, 2 more cory cats, and some combination of 4 more female livebearers (which will put the male/female ratio at 2:1 vs. 1:1).

After that, how many more could/should I add?

I think you meant a female/male ratio of 2:1. I think the reason you hear that recommendation often is so that the females won't be stressed out from the males harrassing them. For myself personally (after going through about a dozen pregnancies and probably close to 200 fry with platys and mollies) if I were to start over I'd probably get just male livebearers to avoid this issue. Males tend to be less piggy, smaller and somewhat better coloring from what I've seen. Female health seems to decline or be more at risk with each pregnancy, and every time one has gotten pregnant it's been multiple back to back to back pregnancies even after males have been removed.

Once you do have fry (and it's almost inevitable if you are going to have males and females), I'd just let nature take it's course unless you plan to raise the fry. Even after we stopped "rescuing" fry a number of them still managed to hide and grow up to juveniles even with hungry adult fish present. Although they aren't really schooling fish, we had a pack of about 6-7 molly fry that stuck together until they were big enough to be on their own (I think they did this for better protection).

[parker002]

Nov 5, 2009 21:23:57 GMT -5 Carl said:

Nov 3, 2009 23:28:39 GMT -5 parker002 said:

I think we're going to get a betta, 2 more cory cats, and some combination of 4 more female livebearers (which will put the male/female ratio at 2:1 vs. 1:1).

After that, how many more could/should I add?

There is much that goes into stocking questions, and much of it subjective due in part to unique fish personalities, but also areas such as aquarium decorations, water parameters, maintenance, and filtration.
I would think you could had more livebearers, depending upon type (Swords are not as prolific a breeder as goldenpuon noted, but tend to need much more room and are generally more aggressive, but this too is a generalization).

Could you remind us/me what your filters are or provide a picture of this tank to see how it is landscaped/decorated?

Sorry if our answers were not very specific, but this is an area that I in particular look at each tank on a tank by tank basis, even for my maintenance clients.

This article is a little off subject, but still may be helpful in stocking decisions:
Aquarium Answers; Tank Size, Stocking

Carl

I have an Aqueon 55 filter.

www.aqueonproducts.com/products/aqueon-power-filter74412.htm

I'm also wanting to add a pre-filter (is that what you call it?) that goes on the intake.

Here's some pics of my setup. A few closeups of my ornaments/structure, starting on the left and going right, followed by a full view.

[Carl]

First your tank looks very nice, clear, etc.

Here are some suggestions (please take them constructively)

Although the Aqueon is an excellent filter (depending upon the model you used; I assume the model 55), this can still often be inadequate for supporting a higher bio load.
The Pre-Filter/Filter Max can certainly help boost your bio capacity and help maintain a healthy bio filter capacity when cartridges are changed in your Aqueon Filter.
I would also suggest another filter for redundancy as well, such as a Sponge Filter (such as a #3) or even another Power Filter.

I would also consider adding more decor; plants, rocks, etc.

Maintaining healthy parameters from the well known ammonia. nitrites, nitrates, and stable pH, to often less addressed but still important KH, GH, Redox can help with bio load.

Carl

[fishfever]

Nice pics parker!

I started off with the Aqueon (model 30) in my 26g bowfront since the tank came with it. It's not a bad filter but I agree with Carl you may wish to supplement it or upgrade it if you are going to push for higher bioloads. Since I had a fair number of platys and mollies which can push the envelope higher, I upgraded to the Vitalife 200 model that Carl's store sells. But for a few months I actually ran both of them side by side for extra filtering (and to help season the cartridge in the Vitalife) until I added a UV sterilizer and didn't have room for 2 HOB's. At that point I moved the Aqueon to a 10g hospital tank where it does a good job.

Although the Aqueon works fine, the new Vitalife blew it away in terms of flow (I estimate 2:1 advantage), cartridge durability (surface material very tough and easily survives multiple hard cleanings yet still allows excellent flow), flexibility (adjustable flow rate, 2 slots and plenty of room in the box to put volcanic rock, Purigen bag, almond leaf packet, etc.) and much lower flow-by even with the Vitalife set for max flow. It is also made to break down easily (impeller and tubes snap out) for cleaning and I really like that you can see through the tubes to gauge build-up to help schedule cleanings. When you add the prefilter sponge it's a very hard to beat combination for price and performance IMHO.

I'd definitely look into the prefilter if you plan to keep the Aqueon, not just for increased bio-filter capacity but also to keep fry from getting stuck in the intake tube slots.. I lost quite a few this way before I realized what was happening. The sponge filters that Carl sells are also excellent and would be a great supplemental filter in this tank. I used the 2" high one in my 10g fry tank and it's supported as many as 150 fry at once by itself (yes, this is probably pushing the envelope a bit too much but I had nowhere else to put them and they kept coming!).

[parker002]

Yes, I have the model 55. From the looks of the Vitalife filters, I'd probably be better off just buying one of them, given the cost of replacement filter media from Aqueon.

Also, what the difference between the sponge filter and the pre-filter?

Given that I have livebearers and the fry absolutely can get caught in the intake holes, I want something that will cover the end of the intake.