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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jul 25, 2015 12:48:07 GMT -5
Two questions... 1) I have trouble understanding the Redox thing...without the expensive meters or whatever, how do you tell if your water is positively charged? I dont think you need to worry about it to much. It's managing acidity in the tank by considering oxidizers (things that increase acidity) and reducers (decrease). It's a balance and something human even have in their body systems (digestion, blood). With your good aquarium habits, such as regular water changes, good minerals, proper conditioners, UV sterilizer... You're managing the oxidation, by the means of all these reducers. Aquarium science fun. It's more important to understand the concept then to try and understand every aspect of the concept.
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Post by angelminx on Jul 25, 2015 16:12:19 GMT -5
I tend to have problems understanding the concepts at times. As to the ammonia, it just seems weird to me that I am getting the ammonia readings in the 10G now when I never did before. I'll try not to obsess about it ( ).... ...Today's API test for the 10G was ~ 0.75 while the Am Alert still showed green with a "touch" of yellow. Out of curiosity I did 2 tests with distilled water. In them the (new) Am Alert (from the 10G) shows yellow with just a touch of green, and the API test shows yellow (the same shade as in the 55G where there is "no" ammonia reading)...this yellow has never matched the more of a golden yellow that shows on the card; it's not really green tinted, just not really a bright yellow. As a side note, I've contacted API before about the differences in color between (most of) the cards for the same tests when I get a new "refill". They told me that you should use the card that comes with the new bottles, and not the old card. This doesn't make sense to me since I wouldn't think that they keep changing the make up of the reagents...I've always used the card that came with my original test, tho each time I get a new one I compare the colors on the (freshwater) cards, and most of the times they do not match, although they did this last time. Earlier this month I called to suggest they offer just the reagent for the GH test without having to buy the KH test too. Even though I don't test for GH on a regular basis, I still go through it a lot faster than the KH test--which they do sell separately. Because my KH is so low while my GH is high I have 2 unopened bottles of KH reagent--though it is close to time to open one of them--and I've already used between a third and one half the one GH bottle I "just" got. They told me that they don't market the GH separately because it is only for fresh water use...that makes sense ? I rarely add tap water directly to the aquariums anymore (and always add Prime when I do) since I have the holding container set up now. Speaking of which...I have a tip: In my case, the container is in the living room against the wall "behind" the end table (the only place it would really fit). The outlet is behind the recliner next to it, so it is awkward to plugin and unplug the cords for the heater and the air pump (for some reason I have to keep the heater on because the water in the tub is always colder than "room" temps). I don't usually have to unplug the air pump, but when I do water changes (not top-offs) I have to unplug the heater, and the plug tends to end up on the floor behind the chair by the time I'm ready to plug it back in. I just found a solution : Lakeside Collections is (at the moment) offering both a (single) 3-outlet and a (3-pack) single outlet (which--unlike the 3-outlet version--is not grounded) that have an on/off switch (I got them for $3.20/package) that you plug in to your regular outlet. I haven't seen them anywhere else. At the moment I am using the single version for the heater...now all I have to do is reach over and flip the switch !
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Post by Carl on Jul 25, 2015 18:25:09 GMT -5
I would agree with API as the cards fade over time.
Carl
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Post by angelminx on Jul 25, 2015 23:44:03 GMT -5
My problem with them has been colors that are way off, such as more of a mustardy green than yellow for the same parameter. I don't have any of the "new" ones right now (other than the one that does match), but I'll keep the next ones I get and get comparison pics for you (I should be getting a new camera next month) so you can see what I've been experiencing...of course, this means the next ones I get won't be "off" so drastically (sometimes it's almost be like comparing the freshwater card to the saltwater one in color differences).
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Jul 29, 2015 9:18:10 GMT -5
I thought I posted this yesterday: I haven't received my order yet...supposed to be tomorrow (this will be today...lol), so I will have my NH3 test I was having computer issues for a while now here at work, and yesterday, it was the WORST. I was without a computer for 90% of my day ...sooooooo.... Ammonia reading with drops was .25 up until yesterday(7/27/14). 0 ppm on the test yesterday with 5g spawn tank and 32 gallon holding tub (it is only 1/2 full right now). I fed powdered food for the first time Sunday and I removed Dad yesterday. As far as pH swings and other stressful issues with adding new water...most breeders drip acclimate 1 gallon a day to avoid this. I drip 1 drop per every 3 to 5 seconds, if not 1 drop every 6-9 seconds. VERY SLOW drip to avoid acclimation shock. I have added water as early as 3 days old, and waited until 10 days old with the same loss and the same drip method. I even went as far as getting IV drip lines from my Vet, so I could control the drip even further. With these it was taking 2 days per gallon of water. I was still getting a loss of fry. ....end of "this" post. Checked on the fry. I still haven't added any new water. 5g is about 1/3 full...closer to between 1/4 - 1/3. I fed again this morning ((remember, I have a seasoned sponge and a seasoned breeding mop (basically yarn tied in the middle), so I'm sure there is a . I still have a bunch (a crap ton) of fry. I will again check when I get home. At 10 days free-swimming, I will start to drip water (as long as the 32 is reading 0 ppm). ((I am basically posting what I am doing, so IF the fry start dying, maybe we can pin-point what I did wrong.)) I will go today to get a new gH and kH kit. I have looked EVERYWHERE and can't find mine ((ok...if Petsmart has one, I'll get one
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Post by Carl on Jul 29, 2015 9:44:34 GMT -5
As far as pH swings and other stressful issues with adding new water...most breeders drip acclimate 1 gallon a day to avoid this. I drip 1 drop per every 3 to 5 seconds, if not 1 drop every 6-9 seconds. VERY SLOW drip to avoid acclimation shock. I have added water as early as 3 days old, and waited until 10 days old with the same loss and the same drip method. I even went as far as getting IV drip lines from my Vet, so I could control the drip even further. With these it was taking 2 days per gallon of water. I was still getting a loss of fry. ....end of "this" post. Checked on the fry. I still haven't added any new water. 5g is about 1/3 full...closer to between 1/4 - 1/3. I fed again this morning ((remember, I have a seasoned sponge and a seasoned breeding mop (basically yarn tied in the middle), so I'm sure there is a . I still have a bunch (a crap ton) of fry. I will again check when I get home. At 10 days free-swimming, I will start to drip water (as long as the 32 is reading 0 ppm). ((I am basically posting what I am doing, so IF the fry start dying, maybe we can pin-point what I did wrong.)) I will go today to get a new gH and kH kit. I have looked EVERYWHERE and can't find mine ((ok...if Petsmart has one, I'll get one Is there a way to split the fry with the SAME water? Why I ask is controlled experiment whereby keeping fry in exactly the same water, but with with one group do nothing at 10 days while with the other continue as normal with the drip. This could rule out or point to where the problem might be Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Jul 29, 2015 11:48:55 GMT -5
I can...the only "issue" is that the water would be a LOT less for one tank. Right now they are only in about 2 gallons of water. I'd need to take at least a gallon out for the new tank. I don't have any seasoned sponge filters that I can use right now for the move. ((ok...I am making excuses)). Carl, as you know I don't like "contaminating" spawns/tanks by using water from an established tank (mycos). Let me think about this...I do have a 10g that was nuked and reset up with bristle nosed plecos/pair. I just put some juvie cichlid fry and my breeding pair of Peacock Gudgeon. **taking deep breaths** lol Only the male gudgeon did not come from a friend/breeder. He has been in QT/Cherry Shrimp tank for well over a month, and they have free-swimming fry in the RCS tank....so point being, I feel that I can drip a gallon from this tank into the control tank??? and the other drip at the same rate..fresh/aged water??? ((at work, and lost train of thought))...I did just look over at my breeding pair of Angel fish. I have a small (not mini) sponge floating in that tank . It has been in there well over a month now, so it should be nice and seasoned. IF I remember too, I will take it home with me today.
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Post by Carl on Jul 29, 2015 12:49:11 GMT -5
I can...the only "issue" is that the water would be a LOT less for one tank. Right now they are only in about 2 gallons of water. I'd need to take at least a gallon out for the new tank. I don't have any seasoned sponge filters that I can use right now for the move. ((ok...I am making excuses)). Carl, as you know I don't like "contaminating" spawns/tanks by using water from an established tank (mycos). Let me think about this...I do have a 10g that was nuked and reset up with bristle nosed plecos/pair. I just put some juvie cichlid fry and my breeding pair of Peacock Gudgeon. **taking deep breaths** lol Only the male gudgeon did not come from a friend/breeder. He has been in QT/Cherry Shrimp tank for well over a month, and they have free-swimming fry in the RCS tank....so point being, I feel that I can drip a gallon from this tank into the control tank??? and the other drip at the same rate..fresh/aged water??? ((at work, and lost train of thought))...I did just look over at my breeding pair of Angel fish. I have a small (not mini) sponge floating in that tank . It has been in there well over a month now, so it should be nice and seasoned. IF I remember too, I will take it home with me today. This is another way to do this, but I was thinking the "Control" tank had nothing dripped into it. If you were to carry this experiment a step further, you could split the fry between three tanks with one dripped with the fresh/aged water, another from the tank you cited, and the third do nothing. This might need to be set up better for a successful experiment, meaning this may need to wait for the next spawn Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Jul 29, 2015 13:22:08 GMT -5
I can...the only "issue" is that the water would be a LOT less for one tank. Right now they are only in about 2 gallons of water. I'd need to take at least a gallon out for the new tank. I don't have any seasoned sponge filters that I can use right now for the move. ((ok...I am making excuses)). Carl, as you know I don't like "contaminating" spawns/tanks by using water from an established tank (mycos). Let me think about this...I do have a 10g that was nuked and reset up with bristle nosed plecos/pair. I just put some juvie cichlid fry and my breeding pair of Peacock Gudgeon. **taking deep breaths** lol Only the male gudgeon did not come from a friend/breeder. He has been in QT/Cherry Shrimp tank for well over a month, and they have free-swimming fry in the RCS tank....so point being, I feel that I can drip a gallon from this tank into the control tank??? and the other drip at the same rate..fresh/aged water??? ((at work, and lost train of thought))...I did just look over at my breeding pair of Angel fish. I have a small (not mini) sponge floating in that tank . It has been in there well over a month now, so it should be nice and seasoned. IF I remember too, I will take it home with me today. This is another way to do this, but I was thinking the "Control" tank had nothing dripped into it. If you were to carry this experiment a step further, you could split the fry between three tanks with one dripped with the fresh/aged water, another from the tank you cited, and the third do nothing. This might need to be set up better for a successful experiment, meaning this may need to wait for the next spawn Carl Carl, what I am worried about is keeping...lets say 100 fry...in a gallon of water (give or take the amount of water). IF I split them, I'd have to take water from the existing tank to move the fry. I would worry about a pH swing moving less than 1 gallon.....unless I move just a few of the fry over...but I'd still have to take about 1/2 gallon...Is THIS more of what you were meaning??? Take a few fry out of the main tank and drip them, and not the majority? ....sorry work/blonde brain
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Post by Carl on Jul 29, 2015 16:23:05 GMT -5
]Carl, what I am worried about is keeping...lets say 100 fry...in a gallon of water (give or take the amount of water). IF I split them, I'd have to take water from the existing tank to move the fry. I would worry about a pH swing moving less than 1 gallon.....unless I move just a few of the fry over...but I'd still have to take about 1/2 gallon...Is THIS more of what you were meaning??? Take a few fry out of the main tank and drip them, and not the majority? ....sorry work/blonde brain This is why I kind of back tracked and stated this may be an experiment for another future brood, as you would want to prepare with the same amount of water to start of as you currently have, just times three! Otherwise, IMHO, the experiment would be flawed from the beginning. Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Jul 29, 2015 20:29:30 GMT -5
Oh..ok I totally missed the "future spawn"....I was at work and had been trying to read between work I found my gH/kH kit....it may be old??? gH, I stopped at 35 to 40 drops and it stayed orange/yellow. kH was 6 drops. I have had the kit for a while. This test was straight tap through water softener. It will be this weekend before I can get to the ONLY fish store that is not petco/smart. It is almost an hr away :/
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jul 30, 2015 8:41:02 GMT -5
Oh..ok I totally missed the "future spawn"....I was at work and had been trying to read between work I found my gH/kH kit....it may be old??? gH, I stopped at 35 to 40 drops and it stayed orange/yellow. kH was 6 drops. I have had the kit for a while. This test was straight tap through water softener. It will be this weekend before I can get to the ONLY fish store that is not petco/smart. It is almost an hr away :/ Pretty high GH. If this is from the tap before it has to go in the tank... maybe an RO. The water through the softener will need cation minerals added back in, as it will take then out. Couldn't add them with this high of GH.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Jul 30, 2015 9:45:34 GMT -5
Carl, I really don't understand the gH/kH thing....at all. Before the softner, the kH was like 12 drops and the gH was like 22/25 drops. I also don't understand why going through the softener would raise the gH. I do understand that it takes out the minerals (not sure what cation minerals are...will be looking that up). When I got the the fish store, I will get test kits for any and all minerals I can find ((we are about to get into SW fish, so I need them anyway). I did not test the RO water for gH and kH. I need to fill my holding 32 up again, so I will bypass the softener with the cold water and use that to fill up the 32. That way I will have "unfiltered" water to test gH and kH....and pH. I still haven't added water to the spawn tank yet...I did get my order from you Carl...yesterday Thank you
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Post by Carl on Jul 30, 2015 10:00:42 GMT -5
Carl, I really don't understand the gH/kH thing....at all. Before the softner, the kH was like 12 drops and the gH was like 22/25 drops. I also don't understand why going through the softener would raise the gH. I do understand that it takes out the minerals (not sure what cation minerals are...will be looking that up). When I got the the fish store, I will get test kits for any and all minerals I can find ((we are about to get into SW fish, so I need them anyway). I did not test the RO water for gH and kH. I need to fill my holding 32 up again, so I will bypass the softener with the cold water and use that to fill up the 32. That way I will have "unfiltered" water to test gH and kH....and pH. I still haven't added water to the spawn tank yet...I did get my order from you Carl...yesterday Thank you After going through the softener, your water should go to 0 GH (or very near). If, not your softener is not working correctly or your test kit is not working correctly (my money is on the test kit if so). More importantly, once water has passed through a typical water softener, adding mineral Cations will fail as the water will precipitate out any Cations making it dangerous for your fish and their ability to carry out normal osmoregulation My suggestion for quick and simply GH tests is the API 5 in 1 Test Kit Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquariumtestkit.html#5in1More about Osmoregulation: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.htmlCarl
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Post by angelminx on Jul 30, 2015 16:55:14 GMT -5
I never realized that about the mineral Cations failing...never really gave it a thought. I've never had any desire to use a water softener myself, mainly it had been because I knew some people when I lived in California who had one, and their water felt so slimy! I tested my GH today in the 2 tanks (added a WS to the 55 and an MWS to the 10 a couple of days ago) and they were 13 and 15 degrees, respectively (after a 9-gallon, and 3-gallon H2O change yesterday). I've noticed that the glass canopy keeps getting "lime" encrustations near the sponge filter (from the bubbles bursting), however I even had this problem before I ever heard about adding WS...my "plain" tap water has a GH that varies between 7 and 9 degrees (forgive me for always using degrees, but I "don't do" math so "off the top of my head" I can't give you ppm). I've always been under the impression that those results mean that the water is not hard...if so, why the deposits ? BTW, the ammonia is still present in the 10G (~ 1 ppm; 0.75 yesterday), but other than a day here or there (when the test reads just over 0 ppm, ie: slightly different shade of blue when compared to the 55's results of 0 ppm) the Nitrite is always 0; Nitrate in the 10G today is 5 ppm (again, this is after the H2O change), it hasn't been over 10 ppm in quite a while, and has been running about 7 or 8 in the 10G. Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Jul 30, 2015 17:45:46 GMT -5
Even at 7-9 degrees (160 ppm), you still have minerals in the water, hence the deposits
Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Aug 7, 2015 11:14:07 GMT -5
Hey guys...been busy at work. Finally got my NH3 tester in the tank. Reading is yellow still this morning. I did over feed about 3 or so days ago and the food was molding that afternoon (I have only put food in the tank 1 other time at this point. I feed powdered cyclops, and I had only fed one tiny scoop. This time it didn't spread over the tank to the back where the fry hang out above the mop, so I added a second scoop...I new better ugggg), so I used a brine shrimp net and scooped out most and threw in some pond snails. Within a few hours, the food was gone. I also added water from a failed spawn that was about a week old and had seasoned sponge and mop to the tank. It was a gallon, and I did a slow drip (took over 6 hrs to drip the 1 gallon). I see about 4 or so that stay at the top. I haven't added any more food since...or water. I don't see any dead up front, and I hope they are in the sponge mop.
I still haven't had a chance to get a new gH/kH kit. I should be able to pick it up this weekend.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Aug 8, 2015 13:19:39 GMT -5
I don't see any dead up front, and I hope they are in the sponge mop. Sponges are great.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Aug 20, 2015 14:42:42 GMT -5
New update: Haven't done much to the tank. NH3 reading is fine still. Tank only has about 2.5 gallons. I might have slowly added a gallon between posting, at a drip that tanks all day or longer to add 1 gallon. I have not taken the time to test gH and kH. All tests will be done as soon as I get home. soooo.......out of 200 baby fish, I have 1 (that I see). I am about ready to spawn this pair one more time. I will keep a spiral close and note EVERYTHING I am doing. I need to do a WC, so I plan to use the water from both fish to season a brand new sponge filter. I've had 3 mysterious deaths (2 looked too close to my mycos for comfort), so I am going very sterile with this spawn. I don't know that I will be able to do daily updates, but I will do my best.
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Post by angelminx on Aug 20, 2015 15:22:41 GMT -5
Good luck with your spawn this time, Suzie Q ! I hope you don't have to go thru the same thing again, but that if it starts all over, you will be able to figure it out and correct it before long. I've been going thru the ammonia thing myself with my "quarantine" tank--which used to be cycled (right now it's home to my Banjo Catfish)--but I'm hoping that it's starting to come around again. I am afraid to say that it is, until a few more days have gone by . Angelminx
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