Fish going to die

[brenda]

One of my male P.Chromogynos is going to die...I don't know what is going on.He was fine yesterday morning but LATE last night I noticed he wasn't right...Almost seemed disoriented when swimming. This really sucks as about 1 week ago I lost a female of these. She was swimming at an angle with her mouth up at the very top of the water line. No one seems sick, and I just found it strange that it is only these guys I am all of a sudden losing. Everyone else in the tank seems fine and normal.

[barbara]

If your water tests fine, I'd have to say that the battle for dominance has done this fish in. The Chromos aren't aggressive towards other fish, but I have read where they are very hard on each other. If you can isolate him to another tank, that would be your best bet. I'm sorry to hear this. I love your Chromos...they are so beautiful.

[brenda]

That is what I was thinking as well...It doesn't explain my female I lost but...My water is fine everything 0 that should be and nitrates run about 10-15...I haven't fed them anything different...It is just bothering me as to what is going on...

[Carl]

Sorry to read this Brenda, as I know you take the best of care and have the best of equipment on your tank.

I think Barbara has a point, so I will not elaborate on this.

The only other thought that comes to mind is the relatively rare disease: Ichthyophonus

This does fit the description of this internal disease and it usually only afflicts a single fish.
I still think that Barbara's observation is more likely though.

Carl

[barbara]

I think people tend to forget that the females can be dominant or nondominant as well. This may have been the same problem. You've had these fish a while, and I don't believe this is a parasite problem. I also know how your water change schedule is, and you don't tend to vary it. If your schedule hasn't changed, and you haven't added any new fish recently, and I know you haven't, then something else is happening here.

With my Neochromis Omnicaeruleus, they are very hard on each other. I know this species is more aggressive than your Chomogynos, but I am very careful with this group now. When I had a holding female, I pulled all my females into isolation, as to not leave bad numbers. Don't know if this was the best thing, but my gut told me to do it...so I did.

[jonv]

Brenda,

This might be something to look into. I know this might not help the one not doing so well now, but I can hear my tanks from the room at night time, and many times at night, I'll hear someone splashing around from time to time. Sometimes when I look in on the tank in the morning, I find someone off in the corner or a little roughed up. I haven't had anyone die from aggression in quite some time, maybe four months ago? Someone finally got the older male Johanni, and then before that, I hadn't seen anyone die off from fighting in quite some time. But, the 100 gallon Madagascar tank, that one seems to have a lot of splashing going on at nights.

This might not help as much, but I have noticed with my Africans, once the lights go out completely, so there is no residual light from like the tv or monitor shining into the tank, that's when they really start acting up at night. I don't know if there's anything to support this or not, but it might be something related to activity during night time. I know you really keep your tanks up pretty well, so if something were off in the water, while worth checking to make sure, I'd be surprised. But like Barbara is saying, if there were something off, that is likely to be triggering them acting up. Clearly to me, that pretty much would be your starting point.

[jonv]

Good catch from Barbara here too. It's not very often I've seen it, but from time to time I have seen some females act like males, just not often. It might be due to the different species I have, or maybe not enough years of keeping them to have seen enough of it, I just haven't seen it very often, but yeah, that could definetely happen. I would very much support the idea at least in the Victorians you could see this. Since Barbara confirmed those Obliquidens are Vics, when I put that male Oligocanthus in the 100, even the females were nipping at him. I didn't understand that at first, but now it makes much more sense.

[brenda]

Ichthyophonus actually kind of fits the female I lost especially the way she was swimming at the very top of the tank, in circles but who knows....But my male he was fine yesterday morning and this morning I am pretty sure he is going to die...I am sure of it. It is possible the female was fighting as well...My females of this species go at it and that is why I had had a hard time figuring out if I had any females.

[barbara]

I can't confirm it, but I have heard that the Zebra females are aggressive enough that they will actually stop a male from coloring, if the male isn't quite dominant enough. This may be my problem with my Obliquidens, that my females are very aggressive...who knows honestly. I can take guesses, based on research, but I can't say for sure.

Brenda, I'm really sorry about your fish. I know how much you like your Chromos. I know from your numbers that you've had a few too many males, and sometimes things work themselves out.

[brenda]

I am now sure it was due to the 2 sub-doms fighting...I thought it was but then what the heck happened to my female? The sub-dom that I just moved also had a cloudy eye from fighting and these 2 would go at it like Jon was saying...I would hear water spalshing neither one would give up...They didn't mess with the Dom male as they knew better. I am worried because after seeig my other sub-dom male he doesn't look so hot either...I hope he is just tired...I would hate to lose both males and be left with just one...At least I have a couple fry if this were to happen.

[barbara]

Would you like me to send you a male or 2? I have extras, and you are getting a shipment this week. I had planned on taking them for trade, but I'd be happy to send you a few males if you think that would help.

[brenda]

Hmmm...I didn't even think about that Barbara....That may be an idea because I am really not sure about my other male right now either.

[barbara]

Let me know...I need to get them to Dave's today if he is going to ship them Monday.

[brenda]

Thanks Barbara....

[barbara]

Glad to help Brenda, you know that. My only concern is that mine are smaller than yours...but I don't think that will be a problem. I know they are from a different farm as yours, so we're actually strengthening the bloodline by doing this, if mine ever mate with yours.

[barbara]

When I took the fish to Dave's, we had a hard time sexing them. He and I both believe that they are both males, by the egg spots on them, but since they were in bags and stressed, it's hard to tell. I know one is a male, for sure. So, you are getting two Chromos, hopefully both males.

[brenda]

Well, I lost the one and the other isn't any better or worse...Still up in the air on him. These guys must have really had it out...The problem was they were so equal in size neither wanted to be 3rd string. They didn't even try for the #1 position but they both wanted to be next in line and it may have been the undoing for both of them. Barbara is sending me a couple males with my shipment that Dave is sending for Tuesday...Thank you Barbara.

[barbara]

Sure Brenda, glad to help. I'm also pleased at the timing...I mean, if things are going to go badly, you couldn't have asked for a much better time for it. You were already getting a shipment, and these were added at no additional shipping cost.

[brenda]

That is for sure...

[kagome]

I am so sorry that you have lost some fish Brenda. I know that you really care about them and so I'm sure you must be upset. I'm sorry that I have no experience with the Africans and so can offer nothing more than sympathies, but at least you can no my heart goes out to you and your fishies.