|
Post by goldenpuon on Jan 2, 2009 18:47:31 GMT -5
I have the SW aquarium light hooked up to my 40 gallon now which has several goldfish in it. It is really bright. I have never had lights for fish really so I wouldn't know how bright their light should be before but this light seems a bit intense. I was wondering if it's brightness could cause any stress to my fish. My tank has hiding places but no gravel and not a super lot of cover for the fish to go if the light is too intense. The light is also blue and gives the water a bluish tint. Is the brightness of the light is ok for them?
Just want to make sure my goldies are happy. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by eve on Jan 2, 2009 18:51:00 GMT -5
i actually prefer those marine lights over the others, as they also give a nice touch to the tank itself
it shouldn't be a problem just watch them and see if they get stressed
if they do, then i would recommend exchanging the strips for the planted variation
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jan 2, 2009 18:56:06 GMT -5
I am a firm believer that good lighting is not only important for freshwater plants as well as marine corals, etc., but that good lighting is healthy for general fish as well. Admittedly my evidence is anecdotal at this point, but I the science behind my theory shows it to be a strong possibility that proper lighting aids in proper assimilation of nutrients as well as aiding in an balanced Redox Environment. See section #6 in this article: Aquarium Disease PreventionI would recommend plants (live or artificial) as well as rocks/caves for the fish to get away if they need to. In Amazon River environment tanks, I use Indian Almond leaves or peat to not only improve water conditions, but to tone down the water all the while still providing good PAR lighting. Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jan 3, 2009 14:49:21 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll try to get another hiding place in there. But knowing them, whether they like the light or not, they'll still be out 24/7 begging for food. lol Thanks again for the tips.
|
|
|
Post by 8 in the Corner on Jan 6, 2009 23:03:52 GMT -5
IMHO lights are not necessary for aquariums unless you have live plants or it is a saltwater tank with corals and such. They are just an accessory that makes it easier for us humans to see our little pets better.
Fish do not have the luxury of artificial lighting in the wild and seem to have done very well without it. As long as you are feeding them the proper diet for their species, I don't think light has anything to do with nutrition. But of course, that is just my opinion.... and you know, everybody has one. 8
|
|
|
Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 7, 2009 1:05:56 GMT -5
not very often that i disagree with you john.....but lights DO have an important part of healthy fish.....we reproduce a day and night cycle which is very very necessary.i would hate a lifetime of night and i bet my personality would change. i actually change my timer to closer reproduce the lighting of the season
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jan 7, 2009 10:16:30 GMT -5
While the importance of lighting for fish does not have hard proof, there is much in theory to support that correct lighting is important. Bill (bikeguy) makes a good point as to his own mood, and this is much scientific evidence as to human "well being" and light, so this is not hard to transfer similar assumptions to fish (much of the better scientific research and findings that have been applied to the fish keeping hobby have come from human, veterinary, horticultural, or other technologies research). I have observed in loosely controlled studies marine fish higher disease resistance when lighting is improved. Lighting also may play some role in Redox which also effect fish health. As well lighting plays a major role in Brown Diatom Algae Finally, what may make the assumption that lighting makes no difference is the use of poor quality lighting. You cannot compare apples to oranges and make as accurate of an assumption. The point is you cannot compare a old style incandescent light bulb to a high PAR light or even some of the old aquarilux were of low PAR and lumens per watt. I reference lighting in this article: Aquarium Disease PreventionAquarium Lighting; in depth light informationCarl
|
|
|
Post by kagome on Jan 7, 2009 13:38:43 GMT -5
Also, fish don't have the luxury of artificial lighting because they have the ultimate luxury, the actual sun! And so when we put them in captivity we deny them that and should try to mimic the natural conditions that they would find themselves in. I think you should try to tailor the lighting in your tank to mirror those of the natural habitat of your fish as much as possible and this should be yet another consideration when deciding which fish to house together. That way everyone in the tank has their needs met because everyone has similar needs and that's how you've got the tank set up.
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Jan 7, 2009 13:38:53 GMT -5
I actually think that John has a valid point, but not in the sense that it would undermine or go against Carl's study/documentation. If we consider, fish out in the lakes rivers and streams, have no manual control over the light that is received or even alter is, and how they tend to thrive, I think this must be considered. Most of our fish kept in tanks, probably, as I can't actually prove this, have been kept in tanks over many generations and while evolution itself takes a very long time to change, something has to be changing in fish that evolved in a natural light cycle, to an artificial one.
Maybe what we are seeing here, is proof of the effect that an increased light cycle has? If we see plants and fish growing out to larger sizes or living in different conditions but doing well, maybe this suggests that if there were more light in the natural setting, this could be better. It's not for people to really criticize mother nature, but if one sees improvements under artificial conditions compared to natural conditions, that must also be considered as well.
I have seen many golf course ponds over run with algae and even some smaller isolated ponds when fishing in upstate NY. My guess is that the light itself isn't causing this, because it's still a natural light cycle, but golf courses have amazingly high run off of nitrates from fertilizers keeping the course as a whole green. Farming is very prevailent in upstate NY and again I see nitrates and phosphates playing a huge role in algae growth, as again, light cannot be the issue, because it's all natural.
I find the articles, as Carl and I discussed on the phone the other day, that if one doesn't read the entire course of the documents, start to ending, even reading over what is already known, key points can be missed. If people in general just simply extract a partial section of something, without tempering that with some thought, key information can be missed, even whole points trying to be made can be altered.
In this case, I see a dilemma myself. Clearly if we look at the fact natural bodies of water have no artificial control to effect the lighting exposure, that does tend to support the ideal that maybe lighting itself isn't the single key, but at the same point, if we look at what we see in artificial conditions, and if some things are actually increased or at higher levels then natural settings, that just as well has to tell us something. My guess here, reading Carl's documentation, with 30 years experience tells me there is more on the surface then we know or can just examine on the surface for simple value. I have a good feeling, the roles and effects probably go much deeper then we know or understand.
|
|
|
Post by jonv on Jan 7, 2009 13:47:02 GMT -5
I find another interesting aspect of the effect of lighting and fish, is that fish active in the daytime are much less active in the absence of light. Shipping fish is an area in which comes to mind. Many people shipping fish will tape over the outside of the bags, newspaper. This tends to block out any light sources and the reason being, is with light in the picture, they are more active and thus producing more ammonia into a bag of water. If you scale their activity down, by cutting the light in the bag, you keep the ammonia output lowered. This alone is proof that light in itself has an impact on fish.
If we also start looking at deep sea fish and how at those levels of the Ocean, nature has found that light is much needed for fish. Some fish that are literally blind, have been forced to attune into new senses in order to survive in the absence of light, and some still have developed their own artificial light sources to assist where eyes haven't been able to change. I really do not know the overall impact of light with certainty, but I do believe that is the whole point of Carl's research here, is to try to shed some light onto the subject, and maybe get a deeper grasp of all the intricacies that are going on in nature. Even if an aspect is missed or not accounted for, I do say thank you at least for Carl as someone is at least trying to find documented research to prove or even disprove ways of thinking.
And yet, not to ramble on here, there is something I have recently observed. I normally rotate out the lighting on my 180 between the regular white bulbs with the flourescent blue bulbs, so that no set of bulbs really get overworked. I am not actually experimenting with this effect but I just have noticed that under the blue lights, activity is significantly subdued, less speed in movements around the tank, and overall aggression appears to be considerably less under the less brilliant blue light vs. white light. I think again, this does show, to whatever degree it does show, the impact of light on fish and their life. I might be misguided in my conclusions, but clearly, if the only difference is the color of light in my tank, that really leaves me only one thing I can think of. The less brilliant and less bright blue is causing the fish to be more mellow or peaceful.
|
|
|
Post by murdock6701 on Jan 7, 2009 14:32:26 GMT -5
good points Jon - Carl and I have discussed in depth the advantages of reading the entire article - not to get off topic here, but read them all - each article is a puzzle piece you're looking for - put all the pieces together and you have the whole picture!
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jan 7, 2009 15:54:37 GMT -5
As stated the WHOLE picture is what is important, especially when considering the artificial environment an aquarium basically is. We have to add some "un-natural ingredients" whether minerals, conditioners, even UV Sterilization, but these all add up to bring the aquarium as close to nature as possible in other ways. One must keep in mind as Kagome stated that the aquarium lights of old cannot compare to many of the better lights that more closely replicate the sun. Even then fish in the wild often have the luxury of hiding from bright light they may not be able to in a barren aquarium, YET these fish still derive the positive benefits of of the sun when they need to. Even other animals such as Red Ear turtle which MUST receive UVB radiation for a healthy carapace do not spend the whole day sunning themselves. As to fish that live in area devoid of light they still derive some of the positive benefits from the light they may NEVER experience via life forms they may feed on that derive their food energy from areas of light until they migrate to these "dark" places, although some life forms admittedly derive energy from nitrogen fixing bacteria that live deep under water in anaerobic conditions (see my Nitrogen Cycle article for this). Even the artificial devices such as UV Sterilizers (which aid in Redox which is more naturally enhanced in open systems such as rivers or oceans) or or mineral blocks replenish minerals that would be otherwise replaced naturally in the wild. Back to lighting, one more point; that is with the small exception of the before mentioned nitrogen fixing bacteria that live deep in the sea; if you take away the sun and the energy it provides, you take away life itself and I do not think if you are trying to achieve the best environment for your fish whether fresh or saltwater, you are doing them a favor by depriving of this source of energy!As I note in my Aquarium Disease Prevention article (& elsewhere), there is not one tool, puzzle piece (or whatever you would call it) that will make the perfect aquarium; it is all these pieces taken together that makes a difference. Admittedly I think lighting is a smaller piece than say regular water changes, however it is still a piece! Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jan 7, 2009 17:56:18 GMT -5
Thanks for all the tips guys. I will be more carefully observing my fish with the lights on and off to see how it affects them. Right now I'm super busy with finals coming up but I will watch to see what I can learn when I get the chance.
|
|