Please help with disease ID and treatment plan

[rt8169]

Hello,

Long time lurker, would appreciate input!

I took in a a large group of Malawi cichlids 10 months ago who possibly weren't cared for well, and had multiple diseases.

I was losing multiple fish per week mostly with no outward signs of disease.

Initial symptoms on the other fish: flashing, some white spots not consistent in size, and possible gill redness but it was hard to tell with the fish coloration

- Initially I did a 10 day treatment of Ich Attack following the treatment instructions. - There was no change in the mortality rate or symptoms.

- I noticed several fish were exhibiting sunken belly and I treated with a course of ron's medicated food and the sunken belly cleared up, but the mortality rate remained the same.

Some spots seemed to have filament(s) extending off the fish, I wondered if it might be a parasite so I did 3 weeks of prazipro - no changes

They didn't match the description for anchor worms but I decided to try cyropro - again no changes.

I did give several weeks between treatments to allow the fish to recover.

My mortality rate now is about 1 fish per month. Here's what I think I've done that's slowed it down:

Lowered the tank temperature from 80F to 76F

Removing substrate

keeping some salt in the tank

Replacing coralive UV with titan 850 UV

I can generally catch a fish being listless at the bottom but still swimming and they will be dead by the next morning - again no outward signs on the ones that die.

Here's my setup

210G tank, sump with K1 media
Temperature 76F
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates <20ppm
GH ~200ppm
KH ~200ppm
PH 8.0

Titan 850 UV fed by an FX6 (~500GPH) (this was added a couple months ago)

For water changes I use a drip change system and I have the rate about 20gallons/day

I have two 7"x14" 200 micron filter socks I change weekly

I've attached some pictures, the concerning item for me is that in addition to the usually smaller with white appearances I currently have 2 fish that have large patches which hasn't happened before. Appearance aside their behavior hasn't changed to this point and it's been about 4 days.

Attachments:

[Carl]

It does appear you are gaining ground, and the addition of the AAP Titan UV certainly will help check the spread.

I would also consider the addition of some fresh AAP Wonder Shells and bring the GH up to 300 ppm+ (this in part to bring up mineral Cations)
Using AAP/SeaChem StessGuard when not medication is another suggestion.

It appears that you might have been dealing with the spread of Columnaris, so also make sure to lower stressors, and that includes moving, isolating trouble maker fish.

I would suggest a fish bath and maybe swab for the afflicted fish and an in tank treatment of AAP Yellow Powder


More about Columnaris:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/columnaris--saprolegnia.html

More About Fish Baths/Swabs:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html

Resources
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/store/p237/AAP_Wonder_Shell_Lg.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/store/p245/Seachem_Stressguard.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/store/p273/AAP_Yellow_Powder-_Premium_Nitrofurazone.html

[devonjohnsgard]

Hi there and welcome!

Sorry I'm a bit late.

I second the stressors. Seems like your on track. Also agree the GH could be higher and want to reask if they are your current KH and GH readins?
The stressors in these tanks along with water conditions are generally bullying. If there's an aggressor in the tank (which usually always is) they could be beating or stressing each other to death. Or stressing to the point they cannot fight off disease.

I had a cichlid tank and everything was fine and great until they came into maturity and wanted to breed. I had massive die off and once I thought it was stable, the male even killed the females until he was the last man standing.

There some idea of keeping these types of tanks over stocked because of bullying, but I not sure it help. My best cichlid tanks now are single males in a middle size tank.

Hope you figure it out.

[rt8169]

Keeping the females out has helped a lot of the aggression. I do still have a couple that are more assertive than the rest. I suspect if I move them out there will be a new alpha.

KH and GH were from a test strip so I've got the API tests now to get a better reading. I have ordered some wonder shells and equilibrium, trying to do media bags with crushed coral until I can get the wonder shells.
I'll post an update on the parameters when I re-run all my tests today.


I started a full tank dose of kanaplex and nitrofurazon yesterday, planning to do that for 10 days.

The linked bath article recommends sodium salt, epsom salt, and MB for the bath. I also have AAP Green, would that be better for my case?
And then drip some stress guard on affected areas before releasing back to DT?

[devonjohnsgard]

Feb 13, 2024 14:50:58 GMT -5 rt8169 said:

Keeping the females out has helped a lot of the aggression. I do still have a couple that are more assertive than the rest. I suspect if I move them out there will be a new alpha.

KH and GH were from a test strip so I've got the API tests now to get a better reading. I have ordered some wonder shells and equilibrium, trying to do media bags with crushed coral until I can get the wonder shells.
I'll post an update on the parameters when I re-run all my tests today.


I started a full tank dose of kanaplex and nitrofurazon yesterday, planning to do that for 10 days.

The linked bath article recommends sodium salt, epsom salt, and MB for the bath. I also have AAP Green, would that be better for my case?
And then drip some stress guard on affected areas before releasing back to DT?

Think the Nitro Yellow is a good choice. Nitro Green for when there's more of a fungus mold issue along with bacterial infection.
Stress guard just in the water should be good enough.

[rt8169]

Adding the wonder shells has increased my GH over 300ppm now.

I have reached the end of a 10 day treatment of kanamycin/nitrofurazon combination. I did a 25% water change prior to dosing every other day. With the UV off this whole time.

My observations were overall the color improved on all the fish, the white areas decreased but are not completely gone. I'm hoping they are just areas that need some more time to heal.

I have 1 fish that is still flashing I plan to move to a quarantine tank for closer observation. The article on AAP suggests a followup treatment in 7-10 days with medicated wonder shells. Is there anything else I should look at? Is there a case where I may need to repeat the kanamycin/nitrofurazon treatment?

[Carl]

Feb 22, 2024 17:37:19 GMT -5 rt8169 said:

I have 1 fish that is still flashing I plan to move to a quarantine tank for closer observation. The article on AAP suggests a followup treatment in 7-10 days with medicated wonder shells. Is there anything else I should look at? Is there a case where I may need to repeat the kanamycin/nitrofurazon treatment?

I would suggest the follow up with medicated wonder shell.
The flashing could simply be irritation, similar to how you would itch as a sore on your body would itch as it heals. so just keep an eye out here for actual infection.

As for re-use of the kanamycin/nitrofurazon treatment, If the disease truly makes a comeback, this maybe necessary, but I look at this as a last resort so as to not get locked into perpetual medication treatment, which has its own issues on the aquatic environment and inhabitants.
Consider the use of AAP/SeaChem StressGuard as part of the healing process, but do not use with medicated wonder shells, only the regular AAP Wonder Shell.

Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/store/p245/Seachem_Stressguard.html

[devonjohnsgard]

Feb 24, 2024 15:36:26 GMT -5 Carl said:

Feb 22, 2024 17:37:19 GMT -5 rt8169 said:

I have 1 fish that is still flashing I plan to move to a quarantine tank for closer observation. The article on AAP suggests a followup treatment in 7-10 days with medicated wonder shells. Is there anything else I should look at? Is there a case where I may need to repeat the kanamycin/nitrofurazon treatment?

I would suggest the follow up with medicated wonder shell.
The flashing could simply be irritation, similar to how you would itch as a sore on your body would itch as it heals. so just keep an eye out here for actual infection.

As for re-use of the kanamycin/nitrofurazon treatment, If the disease truly makes a comeback, this maybe necessary, but I look at this as a last resort so as to not get locked into perpetual medication treatment, which has its own issues on the aquatic environment and inhabitants.
Consider the use of AAP/SeaChem StressGuard as part of the healing process, but do not use with medicated wonder shells, only the regular AAP Wonder Shell.

Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/store/p245/Seachem_Stressguard.html

Great to hear there's good progress.
Carl's advice is great.

I was just going to say instead of Stressguard maybe Sheildex. Stressguard has been discontinued by AAP suppliers and for some reason the site is not showing out of stock. It cannot be added to the cart thou.
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/store/c75/AAP_Aquatronics_Conditioners.html