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Post by 1mysterygirl on Jul 4, 2022 19:20:24 GMT -5
This is about a young female molly who presented with what (I believe are) clear symptoms of columnaris. See videos.
Surprised because her home is a 22g tank with conditions geared to hard water fish, snails and below 75ºF:
1 MOLLY, 2 PLATYS, 11 MYSTERY SNAILS.
22G PLANTED
TEMP. 72-73ºF
0 Ammo 0 Nitrites 20 Nitrates
GH 11dH or 200ppm KH 7dkH or 120ppm PH 8.0-8.2
2 x 25% wc's weekly
+ Aquavitro SHRIMP GH & CARBONATE
- Feed is algae wafers, veg + bug bite pellets, blanched veg, some bloodworm, brine shrimp
In 2gal quarantine tank with salt from .6 tsp - .75 tsp/gallon for the duration
JUNE 21 - 25: Full course of treatment KANAPLEX (3 doses) + FURAN-2 (5 doses)
Daily 30 min. METH. BLUE BATH (dble dose, in tank water) + SWAB
Following this it was almost gone, but a hint of each patch persisting.
Throughout this her behaviour was A1- a rock star. She actually delivered 82 babies on day 4. That's right, 82 
JUNE 26-30: 1-2 BATHS + SWABS DAILY
No change
JULY 1 - 4: Continued baths/swabs + second round same treatment underway: KANAPLEX (2doses) + FURAN-2 (4 doses) (ie all but the last dose of both meds)
No improvement, in fact now a bit more white on the gill plate (than 3rd video shows)
At this point I'm weary of giving any more as it doesn't seem to be helping.
Would you have any recommendation for us to try at this point? Any input is greatly appreciated.
Other meds I have on hand include Metroplex, Polyguard, API Triple Sulfa & Fungus Cure. Also potassium permanganate (was afraid to use this on her gill).
Honestly international exchange and shipping rates aren't options for me atm, though I will support with a donation.
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UPDATE TUESDAY JULY 5/22: There seems to be more white/columnaris on the gill today.
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Post by Carl on Jul 5, 2022 17:42:43 GMT -5
Do you utilize level one UV sterilization? Your parameter numbers look good. I would suggest MethyBlu directly on the lesion and if you can get Merbromin (found in AAP Wound Control), this would be better yet. Part of the problem is Furan 2 is a very weak version of Nitrofurazone, and this is the main active ingredient in the mix. Quality Nitrofurazone is very difficult to get since 2021, but AAP Yellow Powder is far and away the best (but currently it too is not available for another month if I understand correctly) AAP Nitrofuracin Green is another blend that may work, although not as strong as AAP Yellow Powder Finally, if other options are not available, salt can be greatly increased and Mollies are quite tolerant of salt Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html |
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Post by 1mysterygirl on Jul 6, 2022 15:41:48 GMT -5
 Thanks Carl! • No UV sterilizer yet, learning about and planning to get one. As mentioned, surprised by this fish coming down with this since I manage parameters so carefully, the tank is very maintained, it's a low bio-load and she was the alpha fish in there. But! there you go. • I HAVE HAVE BEEN SWABBING WITH METH. BLUE 1-2X DAILY THROUGH MUCH OF THE TREATMENT TIME (now on DAY 16) I mentioned I have potassium permanganate. Q: SHOULD I P. PERMANGANATE ON THE GILL? The matter is now on the gill plate plus a little bit behind it. I do know your info says to do a dip in heavily PRIMED water after... do you feel I should do this ( and if so, how much PRIME?) As mentioned, plus due to the time factor, I cannot order in meds right now. Am going to do so to have on hand soon as I can, and will def do a donation.. But, for now... I am today increasing her IN-TANK SALT to 1 tsp/gallon. I am nervous about going higher, only as I haven't done this before. (I did read the link sent.. had read all in the past but I see you've updated the info and it's awesome btw) And so: Q: COULD I KEEP THE IN-TANK SALT TO 1 TSP/GAL AND DO A DAILY SALT DIP AT A HIGHER RATIO? (if so, what ratio would you suggest?)
(If you feel I really should just go higher in-tank, just say so and I will do it)Q: AS THIS IS DAY 16 AND SHE HAS WEATHERED *A LOT* OF MEDS, SALT AND HANDLING, I'M WONDERING IF SHE SHOULD HAVE STRESS GUARD IN-TANK WITH THE SALT?
Thank you so much again Carl. I hope my using caps and colour isn't just annoying, trying to make it a little simpler to deal with, I can't imagine reading through all these notes as you do..
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Post by Carl on Jul 6, 2022 18:50:06 GMT -5
Potassium Permanganate should NOT be used on or near gills.
A strong salt bath may help, but for the most effective salt treatment it should used as per the article and without other meds
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Post by 1mysterygirl on Jul 6, 2022 22:31:23 GMT -5
I guess what I read re: potassium permanganate meant if you should get it in the gills accidentally...
I gather 'no other meds' means I couldn't use Merbromin swabs either while treating with salt, so I'll proceed with the salt treatment and will share an update in time.
Thanks again Carl for your help, and patience.
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Post by Carl on Jul 7, 2022 8:57:33 GMT -5
I gather 'no other meds' means I couldn't use Merbromin swabs either while treating with salt, so I'll proceed with the salt treatment and will share an update in time. 'no other meds' would mean combined in the tank/aquarium. Outside the aquarium, Merbromin can be used |
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Post by 1mysterygirl on Jul 8, 2022 10:47:53 GMT -5
I gather 'no other meds' means I couldn't use Merbromin swabs either while treating with salt, so I'll proceed with the salt treatment and will share an update in time. 'no other meds' would mean combined in the tank/aquarium. Outside the aquarium, Merbromin can be used Got it, thanks. UPDATE: She has now had salt in-tank to a level of 2.5 tsp per gallon for 12 hours. Behaviour is excellent, but there's no improvement in the matter on her gill at all. I'm wondering how long I should keep her in this, and how long before you conclude it's not helping? Because the gill was almost perfect at one point then worsened, is there any chance at all what we're seeing is irritation from so many swabs etc? (it is still white -ugh) Is there a chance it could help to swab with a strong solution of Furan-2 or Furan-2 + Kanaplex? New pic and video attached. |
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Post by Carl on Jul 9, 2022 10:51:41 GMT -5
I would recommend 7 days, assuming this is even Columnaris.
As for a swab with Furan-2 + Kanaplex, I never had any results with antibiotic swabs. Merbromin is far and away my first choice based on results
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Post by 1mysterygirl on Jul 9, 2022 16:22:47 GMT -5
A little confused now.. are you suggesting t may not have been columnaris at all, or that what we're seeing now may not be? ( I thought the initial appear either the patch on the body also was pretty clearly columnaris)
If not columnaris, then what?
I was asking above if it could simply be irritation etc?
UPDATE SATURDAY:
'Slight' improvement, it's only on the hill
plate no longer any just behind the gill.
I notice inside the gills looks super white-- i don't 'think' it was soooo white before--- otherwise active, eating, all good
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Post by Carl on Jul 10, 2022 19:33:46 GMT -5
A little confused now.. are you suggesting t may not have been columnaris at all, or that what we're seeing now may not be? ( I thought the initial appear either the patch on the body also was pretty clearly columnaris) If not columnaris, then what? I am basing this on poor results (although optimum treatment has not been used, you still have used a good 'B' treatment) Saprolegnia is possible, a very extreme/magnified closeup could confirm this. |
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Post by 1mysterygirl on Jul 24, 2022 23:28:50 GMT -5
VIDEO: SUCCESS! healthy again.m4v (4.3 MB) Hi guys... It's been another 2 weeks now. I expected to update sooner but really haven't had anything I'd call conclusive until now. The good news is.. it's good news! This little lady seems to be over it all and will go back into the main tank tomorrow. When you said possibly saprolegnia, I mean I'm certainly no expert, but I've seen the grayish transparent puffs with hairlike structures in them numerous times that match every description I've seen of saprolegnia, and unless there's another strain etc, this just didn't match that at all. I wasn't even convinced it was still columnaris, it almost seemed more like some residue in little depressions on the gill plate. In any case, after all she'd been through I wanted to go with the salt treatment and see which way things went. Carl, you'd suggested 7 days. After 5 days there was no change. Then suddenly it improved, and more. She was doing great so I risked 2 extra days at which point she looked good. So relieved as I didn't know what I would do next. There's the slightest less than 100% black look to those little depressions on the gill. I 'think' its just recovering and not significant; time will tell... Here's a summary of the whole treatment she went through. * with regular dosing with GH and KH minerals to keep it @ 11GH, 7KH (suited to a molly) 14 days: (2 full rounds) Treatment with KANAPLEX + FURAN-2 - SALT: basic level - METH BLUE BATH and/or SWAB 1-2 times almost daily 4 days: Meds filtered out + SALT ramped up to 2.5 tsp/gallon 9 days: SALT @ 2.5 tsp/gallon 5 days: SALT reduced with daily 50% water changes 2 days: STRESS GUARD added --------- 34 days total Thank you again for all your help Carl. Your suggestion of the hefty SALT treatment is what did it in the end. I wouldn't hesitate to use that again with a Molly, perhaps even as a first course. Of course many fish couldn't tolerate that, and after seeing the resistance with first treatments used I'll be getting prepared with the better options you've suggested, the merbromin, AAP Yellow Powder-if available, and AAP Nitrofuracin Green. Clearly many fish couldn't survive all this one went through, so I think you need to go to what's likely the most effective remedy asap. CHEERS |
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Post by Carl on Jul 25, 2022 14:35:46 GMT -5
Glad it all worked out!
Salt for Columnaris can be a powerful treatment and is used in the aquaculture industry since antibiotics generally cannot be used
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Thanks Carl!
