only 1 german blue left :(

[eve]

i really have had it with those
i'm definitely done

that's my 5th one that died, no injuries, no spots, no anything
the other one is still doing good for now, but duh, for how long

anyway, it just sucks that they just simply die
you go down in the morning, check them, and dead out of no where

[kagome]

I'm sorry that your fish died! It seems like really experienced and responsible fish owners on this forum are having a really hard time with the rams lately. I'm beginning to question whether or not I want to even try them.

Did you get these rams as small size jueveniles or as adults?

[eve]

sorry, didn't want to down you on your choice
mine where juveniles
i had the last pair now for 2 months

i won't say don't get them, because you might have more luck then we others did

the real advice i can give you
make sure your water is pH 7 or below
and that's it's soft
and that you have lots of plants in your tank

if the parameters are not perfect, forget it sorry

my pH is 7.2-7.4, which is obviously to high for them

[Carl]

Sorry that you too have had problems with these Eve, as I know you have kept them for quite some time.

I have kept German Rams with pH above 7 with success (although I do agree that a stable lower pH is desirable).

A few points I have found (as you pointed out) is the use of driftwood or similar, plants, coorect mineralization, AND in addition I think the use of Peat or better Indian Almond leaves (which naturally soften water and lowers Aeromonas bacteria activity) is helpful.

Finally not to sound like a broken record on this subject, but a I have noted many things in common with succesful German Ram tanks over the years and one major aspect (besides the ideas above in which minerals should never be left out) is UV Sterilization. This not only lowers diisease pathogens in the water column, but also improves Redox which is very important as well for sensitive fish. Even my 14 gallon Bio Cube has one attached to it and they often pay for themselves in fish over the years. This tank has Terminator 5 Watt UV that only sells for $59

I am sorry to make this thread look like a lecture, but I did want to point out that they can be kept, I had one client (admittedly with a 250 gallon aquarium) that had his spawn (with other fish present as well).

Carl

[murdock6701]

sorry Eve - lost every one I had too, the last one just a few days ago - tried to contact you a while back regarding them because you were the only one I knew thathad them....read my past postings if you like, but I think I'm done w/ them too - too fragile and my pH was 7 and all parameters were great!

[eve]

i dont' see it as a lecture at all carl
i think your input here is important for all future members, which consider keeping them

sorry murdock about that as well
it's absolutely frustrating to say the least

but well, i have luck with others, not every fish is suitable for everyone

[nosoop4u246]

I hate to revive an old thread, but I'd like to add that I had 4 Ballon Rams. For a few months, it went fine, then I lost one, then a couple months later, then another. I held onto two of them for nearly a year, then one dropped dead (I'd think it was related to a temperature drop, but my Discus were fine). Down to one, about a year later, it kicked it, too. My pH was probably around 7.4-7.5, and the water is fairly hard. I've had no luck with Discus or Rams with these parameters. After dropping the pH with a blackwater product (Kent's 'Black Water Expert'), I've been able to keep a pair of wild Heckel Discus and two wild Bolivian Rams quite healthy (and nicely rounded, I might add). I think the pH really is key in most cases. Undoubtedly, you'll find the oddballs that do fine in hard, basic water, but I've not come across them. I'd also like to note that peat removes calcium and magnesium from the water as it releases its humic and tannic acids, so I think there is some truth to the idea that acidophilic fish are so well adapted to their environment that "proper" mineralization is less of an issue.

[eve]

that's quite alright soop

i don't have any luck with those fish
all together, i lost 5 rams before i gave up on them
also angels won't thrive in the water we have here either

so now ima stick with kribs for the moment, and see what i will do later down the road

[murdock6701]

good to hear from ya soop - bummer on the rams - I had everything perfect for a month before I put them in and then poop! everyone attributs it to a bad batch of fish - sometimes that happens too but I agree, pH is the key to those little SA buggers - I have rellay hars well water and it took a long time to get things right - certain driftwoods help lower ph as well but is harder to regulate proportion of wood to takn size - turned a 10 galllon sour in 2 days - pH dropped to almost 5 - nice looking pice of wood but cost me 2 fish and had to do daily water changes for a week after I yanked the driftwood out - live and learn - the important part is you shared and that may save someone else a whole lot of grief! thanks

[kagome]

I've also heard that the wild caught Bolivian Rams are much hardier than the tank bred Ram varieties like the German blues and golds, which is weird if you think about it; you would think that fish bred in aquariums for generations would be better adapted to aquarium life. I wonder if they have been inbred in aquarium breeding and that could account for the problems that so many people have with them. I happen to have perfect water for SA fish but am still wary of trying the rams.

[nosoop4u246]

Mar 11, 2009 23:53:47 GMT -5 kagome said:

I've also heard that the wild caught Bolivian Rams are much hardier than the tank bred Ram varieties like the German blues and golds, which is weird if you think about it; you would think that fish bred in aquariums for generations would be better adapted to aquarium life. I wonder if they have been inbred in aquarium breeding and that could account for the problems that so many people have with them. I happen to have perfect water for SA fish but am still wary of trying the rams.

I've heard the same thing. I'd guess it's got a lot to do with simply creating weak fish, not unlike today's Neon Tetras. I think it's also something people are starting to see with the hyper mass produced Discus strains-- breeders are looking at color and nothing else, so you get all kinds of genetic defects: weak immune systems, organ complications, and even hypersensitivity.

[Carl]

Mar 11, 2009 23:53:47 GMT -5 kagome said:

I've also heard that the wild caught Bolivian Rams are much hardier than the tank bred Ram varieties like the German blues and golds, which is weird if you think about it; you would think that fish bred in aquariums for generations would be better adapted to aquarium life. I wonder if they have been inbred in aquarium breeding and that could account for the problems that so many people have with them. I happen to have perfect water for SA fish but am still wary of trying the rams.

I too agree, infact I have one now in my 14 gallon bio cube.

They are also known as Crown Rams



The Bio Lif I sent you Eve is VERY helpful for German Rams

Carl

[eve]

that's a beautiful ram you got carl
well, i still hope to be able to keep them some day, maybe once i have moved, i hope the water there is better then here, so fingers crossed

[goldenpuon]

Sorry that I am late to this thread.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost your rams Eve. Like Murdock said, they are sensitive fish. But I'm sure with some luck and work, it will work out for you and they will live. But I when I first started with goldfish and even guppies, they died. But then I did more research and gained experience and now I rarely have any die. My point is if you keep trying, you might get better at keeping them since you'll gain experience.

I hope that helps! Good luck with your fish.

Renee

[eve]

like i said before
at the moment i'm done with them, i hate it seeing fish die in my tanks
i hope however that the water is better in the new place and that i'm able to keep rams down the line