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Post by Carl on Nov 29, 2014 12:29:05 GMT -5
Has this angelfish (Munkustrap) had anything stronger than the bio bandage, such as a medicated bath with Nitrofurazone/Kanamycin? If positive results are not seen within a couple of days with the bio bandage, a stringer swab with Hydrogen Peroxide or stronger yet with Potassium Permanganate (diluted as per the Fish Baths, Swabs article). Iodine is another strong alternative Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/07/fish-baths.html#dipsCarl
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Post by angelminx on Nov 29, 2014 15:58:45 GMT -5
She did have a basic-med bath (Furan 2/Kanaplex/MB, and 1/2 tsp salt) yesterday morning after I gave the Black Neons their last bath. I wanted your opinion before I continued with any more treatments. Does "iodine" include Mecurichrome? Believe it or not, I still have a partial bottle from years ago ...is there a problem with how old it is? I do have both HP and PP on hand, too. Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Nov 29, 2014 16:17:17 GMT -5
Mecurichrome is one in the same as Mebromin, not iodione This is an excellent topical treatment, in fact one of my first choice ingredients for dips, baths and swabs many years ago before it was banned in the USA Your old bottle may still be effective Reference www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html#mebrominFrom the above article: "USE: A topical antiseptic and moderate oxidizer used for injuries, cuts exposed wounds (minor), and exposed multi cell parasites such as Anchor Worm. It is no longer sold in the USA because of its mercury content (although this has never been scientifically established to be a problem), but it is still available from some sites and was distributed from Aquatronics in many of their aquarium products before their unfortunate demise (due to questionable business practices of others).
This is a great product in my experience if it can be found."If you have not given baths with the Nitrofurazone/Kanamycin combination for more than 8 days, I would continue with these. Carl
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Post by angelminx on Dec 1, 2014 3:13:49 GMT -5
Thanks, Carl I'll continue with the PP swabs for another day, and see how things look. Then, if needed, I'll switch over to the Mecurichrome. I'll continue the "Basic-med" baths, too [*]. One other question (more out of curiosity, since I have other stuff, so an answer is not a priority). I have plenty of Betadine (and the scrub--which I wouldn't think was safe to use for fish); since I 1st had to get it back in '78 for an injury treatment I've always kept it on hand. If I am correct, this IS a form of iodine? *I've always called the Kanamycin/Furan 2 (+ salt and MB) baths "Basic-med" baths since it seems to be the go-to bath treatment (and it's easier than always writing out "K....." ). Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Dec 1, 2014 10:21:41 GMT -5
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Post by angelminx on Dec 5, 2014 16:27:44 GMT -5
Update: After 2 days of Mecurichrome swabs I noticed Munky's sore looked both worse and better; it seemed smaller, but towards the front had a red/(?)bloody spot. So, yesterday I used the last of the BioBandage that I had left (2 swabs) instead of the Mecurichrome. Note: 2 nights ago I noticed some cyanobacteria beginning to form at the left surface of the aquarium (details in CB thread), so yesterday AM performed an 18 gallon H2O change (55G). I also added 6 capfuls of Stability...excuse me a moment, I just realized that I forgot to plug the UV back in!
Today, because I was out of the BB, I swabbed her with MB--I didn't want to use anything else until I got Carl's opinion. The Basic-med baths continue.
Here's a close-up of the original photo (again) and one I took today (it took forever to get, because the camera just didn't want to focus):
This next one I took today, but noticed yesterday. It's on her right side, but just looks like a couple of missing scales:
Opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Angelminx
PS I don't really see any difference in Black Neons I was treating, except that they are happy to be free .
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Post by angelminx on Dec 5, 2014 16:29:58 GMT -5
Here's the "full" shot of her right side:
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Post by Carl on Dec 5, 2014 18:45:43 GMT -5
There is clearly a lot of dead tissue, whether it is progressing is undetermined from what I can tell. the Mecurichrome is not going to give immediate results as it is simply going to stop progression and possibly kill some exposed tissue itself. Partly what needs to be done is to allow the fish to heal herself too Methylene Blue is less destructive & more healing than Mecurichrome, Potassium Permanganate, & Hydro Peroxide, however it also is less damaging to any infection too (so it is a trade off) This is where SeaChem StressGaurd can be really helpful if you have it on hand Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#stressguardI would no go longer than 10 days with anything in the baths other than Methylene Blue Another thought is something I have done in a few instances with good success with swabs is to use Methylene Blue (not any of the other stronger oxidizers) and combine a small amount of Triple Sulfa or Maracyn Plus into a cap full of Methylene Blue and use a Q-Tip to apply to these wounds. Resources: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quickcure.html#maracyn_pluswww.americanaquariumproducts.com/Pimafix.html#sulfaCarl
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Post by angelminx on Dec 5, 2014 19:49:19 GMT -5
Thanks, Carl, I'll try that tonight. She's had 5 days of Basic-med baths so far (I had to skip one day because I was out of town).
Angelminx
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Post by angelminx on Dec 8, 2014 3:19:08 GMT -5
Munkustrap seems to be doing a bit better since I started the MB/Triple Sulfa swabs (along with the basic-mad baths) twice a day. As to the the "sores" on the last photo(s), one of them is gone, but the other, even though smaller, has changed shape. Because of this, I think they are from trying to catch her. First thing in the morning, she's at the front of the tank begging for food, but the rest of the day, if she thinks I'm going to get into the tank for anything, she dives behind the water sprite/heater along the back of the tank. That makes it hard to get at her, and I'm sure I've unintentionally injured her a couple of times because of this. Other than the hiding, when I have to catch her the only problem I USUALLY have is when the center support gets in the way of trying to scoop her up. I hate to put her back into the breeder net, because I know she doesn't like it very well, but if I find any more "scrapes" on her before her treatment is over, I'll do just that.
BTW, in regards to the breeder net, since it had been in almost constant use (because of the Black Neons' mystery affliction), it has become stained a yellowish-brown color from the waterline down. It sometimes gets a greenish stain at the waterline from algae, but I can usually get that off. After I freed the Neons I took it apart to clean it, and bleached the netting (and dechlorinated it), but the stain is still there. Any idea what it is or how to get rid of it?
Angelminx
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Post by parker002 on Dec 8, 2014 10:25:21 GMT -5
I've wrestled with a few fish trying to catch them, including some rather feisty (and large) Koi. I've never seen injuries on the fish afterwards, especially not ones as bad as those in your pics. I know you're looking for an explanation but I imagine in this case, you're just being overly critical of yourself.
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Dec 8, 2014 10:52:43 GMT -5
BTW, in regards to the breeder net, since it had been in almost constant use (because of the Black Neons' mystery affliction), it has become stained a yellowish-brown color from the waterline down. It sometimes gets a greenish stain at the waterline from algae, but I can usually get that off. After I freed the Neons I took it apart to clean it, and bleached the netting (and dechlorinated it), but the stain is still there. Any idea what it is or how to get rid of it? Angelminx Maybe the washing machine. It might stay s stained though.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 14:12:11 GMT -5
Hi Angelminx,
I wouldn't worry about the breeder net stain.... Just keep it clean with super hot water. They do tend to stain when left in the water for a long time. I have two - and the older one is stained. I just clean it good in very hot water, rinse with de-clorinated hot water - let it dry - then put it away.
I don't breed... I use them the way you do.
Judy
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Post by angelminx on Dec 8, 2014 17:19:30 GMT -5
Hi Parker,
I'm not sure where the sore on her left side came from, but it was the ones on the right side that I was thinking I may have caused. The one is gone, and the larger one (the one in her stripe) is now fairly small and more symetrical again. She doesn't show any distress except for when she has to take her baths/swabs, so whatever caused them doesn't seem to be bothering her. The sore on her left side is smaller now, too. I'm going to try to get another picture of it at the end of her treatment. I hope that after that, everyone behaves themselves and stays well.
I still haven't figured out what the problem is with the Black Neons, though. The big female that also had the sore on her left side, basically looks the same, except that the sore has healed up. I would like to know what caused her and Munky's sores...I've never witnessed anything causative that I know of.
Angelminx
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Post by angelminx on Dec 12, 2014 15:53:41 GMT -5
Update: I've finished Munky's treatment--the sore on her left side is smaller now, maybe 1/4", and "round", and only whitish. If I need to, when I receive my shipment of BioBandage I'll use some more of that--added Melafix to the order too. As for the Black Neons, I tried to get some more pics, but had problems with focus, so they are not the best. The 1st is a patrtial-group shot: This one is showing a "break" in the striping--not of the others have this (and there are still some that show no sign of any problems) This is a photo of the one with the biggest case of whatever it is. From this side you can see the "headband" (?) he has:
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Post by angelminx on Dec 12, 2014 16:02:25 GMT -5
These shots are of the last fish--maybe a female because a bit larger than the smaller Neons--in the previous post (spent most of "his" time "in the shadows" while I was trying to get photographs of him): The whitish patches on his lower half don't show up very well in the pics. Whatever he has looks like it is only on the surface.
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Post by angelminx on Dec 12, 2014 16:08:04 GMT -5
These last shots are of one of the females (she seems to be unaffected): All are doing well, otherwise, and eating and behaving normally.
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Post by Carl on Dec 12, 2014 17:26:39 GMT -5
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Post by angelminx on Dec 18, 2014 0:46:24 GMT -5
Update on Munkustrap's left side: the spot is healing very well now, and is much smaller. I just got my order, which included the BioBandage, but when I was getting ready to net her to apply some, I noticed how much better she looked, so decided to give her a (longer) break and leave her be. If you think I should go ahead and give her an application or 2, let me know, and I will. Thanks.
Angelminx
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Post by Carl on Dec 18, 2014 10:53:58 GMT -5
Update on Munkustrap's left side: the spot is healing very well now, and is much smaller. I just got my order, which included the BioBandage, but when I was getting ready to net her to apply some, I noticed how much better she looked, so decided to give her a (longer) break and leave her be. If you think I should go ahead and give her an application or 2, let me know, and I will. Thanks. Angelminx If she is recovering, a break is probably in order. The only exception is any actual treatment regimen should always be followed to completion, especially when positive results are forth coming Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.htmlCarl
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