breeding rams

[murdock6701]

at what age will rams start breeding? I figure mine are 3-5 months at most amd the mle is posturing and in full display - the female mostly hangs high and does nothing - what should I be looking for? thanks everytne - John

[goldenpuon]

Sorry, but I'm not sure. I bet Jon V, Brenda, or 8 will know though. Good luck with your rams. Hope they are doing well and not dying.

[8 in the Corner]

Oct 26, 2008 11:19:26 GMT -5 murdock6701 said:

at what age will rams start breeding? I figure mine are 3-5 months at most amd the mle is posturing and in full display - the female mostly hangs high and does nothing - what should I be looking for? thanks everytne - John

John,
If they are roughly the same age, they could begin at any time now. Rams typically only live about 4 years, so, I would say 6 months is a good estimate for readiness to spawn. Males do not have to contribute as much energy to a spawn as a female, so the male can be ready at almost any time. Since the female is not showing any interest in the male's displays, she is either too young or not ready (in condition) to spawn.

You should start conditioning your little female now so she will begin producing eggs and be ready as soon as she reaches sexual maturity. Lots of brine shrimp and bloodworms for both of them will do the trick. A good "high protein" flake food should be the staple of the overall diet.

They like quiet water with little or no current to speak of in the tank. Lots of plants to hide in and wide leafed plants to lay their eggs on. Amazon swords are always a good choice.

John

[brenda]

Good answer as always John8.

[murdock6701]

thanks John - have had them 5 days - read they might be finicky eaters at first but not to spoil them - they,ve had bloodworms but no brine shrimp yet - why is it necessary to thaw it 1st? brain freeze? LOL

[brenda]

I really don't know I have just always heard that..but I wouldn't imagine a fishes stomach would be used to something so cold.

[murdock6701]

they're eating flake but notice they spit a lot and go back at it again - they are so beautiful and are showing themselves more that they're used to the tank - getting 2 more Wednesday and then the fun will begin.....I'm sure I will be posting a lot, asking a lot of questions - I am very lucky to have so many resources! anyone heard from Eve lately?

[goldenpuon]

No, I haven't heard from her. She may be busy on YA.

[Carl]

Oct 26, 2008 18:36:23 GMT -5 murdock6701 said:

they're eating flake but notice they spit a lot and go back at it again - they are so beautiful and are showing themselves more that they're used to the tank - getting 2 more Wednesday and then the fun will begin.....I'm sure I will be posting a lot, asking a lot of questions - I am very lucky to have so many resources! anyone heard from Eve lately?

I have seen a lot of fish spit out their dry foods and then eat it again, my Bolivian Ram does this with a micro pellet I supplement with.

I have not heard from Eve in in my email or otherwise.

Hope you are getting some rest John


Carl

[8 in the Corner]

Oct 26, 2008 16:09:11 GMT -5 murdock6701 said:

thanks John - have had them 5 days - read they might be finicky eaters at first but not to spoil them - they,ve had bloodworms but no brine shrimp yet - why is it necessary to thaw it 1st? brain freeze? LOL

John,
I really didn't know that is was necessary to thaw frozen brine shrimp before feeding. This is the first time I have heard of it being necessary. I have always done it though. I do have a couple fish that seem to have a permanent brain freeze even though I thaw it first.

I take a cup of tank water, drop a chunk of frozen shrimp into it, stir it around with the turkey baster until it is all thawed out and then I squirt the shrimp into the various tanks I am going to feed. Same with baby brine shrimp that I feed to my fry. Have not had any die offs or sickness in my breeding tanks so far.... I do not separate the shrimp from the liquid before feeding.

If there is a reason, I would assume it would have something to do with any liquid that they are in (or covered with), when frozen, polluting your tank?

Maybe Carl can shed some light on this subject of thawing before feeding.

John

[bikeguy33]

alot of people do. i never have....personally or in dealing with clients tanks....altho it does make sense. the cube thaws very quick in the tank and the fish only seem to take what falls off. i have even opened frozen clams with no ill effects....

[murdock6701]

never could figure it out - you dump a maybe 3/4"x3/4" frozen cube in minimum 20 gallon tank that's around 75-78 degrees......buggers thawed in 20 seconds and gone in 2 minutes! they get their 1st treat of them tomorrow!

[Carl]

Oct 26, 2008 19:57:50 GMT -5 8 in the Corner said:

Oct 26, 2008 16:09:11 GMT -5 murdock6701 said:

thanks John - have had them 5 days - read they might be finicky eaters at first but not to spoil them - they,ve had bloodworms but no brine shrimp yet - why is it necessary to thaw it 1st? brain freeze? LOL

John,
I really didn't know that is was necessary to thaw frozen brine shrimp before feeding. This is the first time I have heard of it being necessary. I have always done it though. I do have a couple fish that seem to have a permanent brain freeze even though I thaw it first.

I take a cup of tank water, drop a chunk of frozen shrimp into it, stir it around with the turkey baster until it is all thawed out and then I squirt the shrimp into the various tanks I am going to feed. Same with baby brine shrimp that I feed to my fry. Have not had any die offs or sickness in my breeding tanks so far.... I do not separate the shrimp from the liquid before feeding.

If there is a reason, I would assume it would have something to do with any liquid that they are in (or covered with), when frozen, polluting your tank?

Maybe Carl can shed some light on this subject of thawing before feeding.

John

I honestly cannot shed any conclusive light on the subject of thawing, I usually have thawed first out of fear of temperature shock, but I have NEVER pr oven this, so I find this inconclusive.

My opinion is that it generally thaws quick enough to not be a problems, and as Bill noted, many of my clients preferred to throw in the cubes and there were no differences between the clients that did and did not. Also an UN-thawed cube will allow a better dispersion of the Brine Shrimp than already thawed cubes.

However some frozen products are dirty and they should be thawed and rinsed prior to use. Also I have often soaked my clients frozen fish foods in vitamins, Spirulina "slurry", and minerals so as to make a more potent meal, especially for FW fish as they receive most nutrients from there food due to the way they respirate vs. SW fish.

Carl

[jonv]

We actually talked about this not too long ago when I was asking about the Malaysian Golden Jardini eating or swallowing an entire cube of bloodworms when I throw it in. I think as well on that issue, there wasn't anything directly related to possible harm on that, and the fish continues to do so as soon as I throw them in. As Carl said too, the temp of the water, and a frozen cube, I'd have to say within a couple minutes, it should start peeling off worms slowly anyways. Rams being a substrate type fish probably wouldn't bother to come up to the top of the tank if a frozen cube was put in and as it dissolved and broke apart, they'd just feed off the tank thawed out portions when they reach the bottom is my guess.

[murdock6701]

the bloodworms I feed are dried but the brine shrimp are frozen - I have never bothered to thaw it out, even w/ the platys - like I said yesterday, a tiny cube of frozen matter dissolves so fast in warm water....never has a fish complain - good point on the blues being substrate, although the female likes it around the top somtimes - thanks all

[goldenpuon]

You're welcome. Wish I could pitch in more to help but I know nothing about breeding rams. On the thawing though, I've heard mixed answers on whether to unthaw or not.

[bikeguy33]

carl has a good point on the vitamins as well. i would always soak the clams i fed to all my larger fish in a liquid marine multi vitamin. vitamins disipate very quickly in a tank and outside of eating it, they won`t take anything from it if it is water bourne.....also to let you in on a secret that the pet stores won`t tell you....a human multivitamin crushed up and mixed with a few drops of tank water is virtually the same thing as the marine multi vitamin at a quarter the price....

[eve]

well, why thaw frozen food, i just found out recently as well

but it's very important that you do
take the cube and put it in a bit of water in a very small cup
then just poor out the water once it's thawed

you have to remember, that you have no idea what is in that water those brineshrimp and bloodworms have been frozen in

also you don't know if it has been thawed in between until you got it
if you pay attention you will notice when you buy them and get them home that a little bit will always be thawed until you get it into your freezer

so better careful then regret later


my rams eat as i mentioned somewhere already flakes and frozen foods

if you want to breed them
i was advised to get a dither fish, like a school of 6 short finned serpae tetras
this will make them fight for the territory as well as it will bond them with each other and the success of breeding is better with that behavior

i still have to do that though, lol