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Post by parker002 on Dec 3, 2012 19:29:08 GMT -5
So I've been treating my 55G tank with Pimafix and Melafix since last Wednesday - I had a Columbian Tetra that appeared to have lost a fight and developed an infection in his tail.
I gave him a MB bath and started treating the tank. He was recovering nicely.
This morning, I had a problem with my air pump so I just turned it off. I have plants and surface agitation from my canister, so I never thought anything of it.
Tonight I fed my fish and was getting ready to replace the pump when I noticed several of my Columbians weren't eating and that ALL of my fish were "gasping". My otos were hanging on near the water line - I usually only saw this when I was injecting too much CO2.
It was at this point that I noticed 2 dead glolite tetras and a dead cardinal tetra.
I immediately got the pump replaced and then did a 15G water change.
Things now appear to have returned to normal. In fact, as soon as I got the air pump running again, the fish started to improve.
So has anybody heard of this before? The only change in my water parameters (and I did test to see if anything had changed) were the Pima and Melafix medications.
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Post by Carl on Dec 3, 2012 20:13:50 GMT -5
Were your lights off within 4 hours of their gasping?
I have never observed this problem by mixing these two medications
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Dec 3, 2012 22:35:24 GMT -5
Nope. The lights had been on all day. I shut the air pump down about 10am and noticed the dead fish around 6pm.
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Post by Carl on Dec 4, 2012 10:35:43 GMT -5
Since I never used either products in an environment where part of air exchange was turned off/cut off, I did some reading (I have used these products in un-circulated bowls though).
One tidbit I came across from an API tech, is that while these products can be effective for a limited number of bacteria, there are others (unknown and considered non pathogenic) that actually feed on these products and then can lower oxygen levels in the aquarium.
My thoughts why this has not happened in bowls is the lack of much substrate or ecosystem which an established aquarium would.
The best test would be a dissolved oxygen test, both before, during and after.
If possible a test without medications but during your normal cycle of air pump off during the day so as to establish a control.
Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Dec 4, 2012 11:32:43 GMT -5
I had a similar problem in my 75g when I took the under gravel down (just unplugged the pump) and added the canister filter. All the fish hit the surface gasping...especially the big fish (Koi). I turned the pump back on and they were fine. I wasn't medicating with anything, so this might NOT be the same. I too have live plants in the tank. I think that with out light, the plants actually take the oxygen back in???
I'd go off what Carl said though..just wanted you to know that even with out meds, I have experienced the same behavior.
Lori
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Post by parker002 on Dec 4, 2012 14:09:46 GMT -5
Yes, during the night when the lights are off, plants stop photosynthesizing so oxygen levels drop.
This was during the day, during "peak" lighting hours, however.
I often turn the air pump off for various reasons and I've never had this happen before. The only variable is the meds.
Very strange.
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Post by Carl on Dec 4, 2012 15:03:08 GMT -5
I think what I noted may have happened, but what I am curious of is how low your oxygen level was prior to the addition of medication. My guess it may have been at a "tipping point"
I have added both these to well established aquariums without this happening, however I never tested the oxygen levels (never had a reason to do so), so I suspect that O2 levels might have dropped, but not to a point I would have noted.
The variable is the loss of air circulation combined with the meds.
Believe me, I am not defending either medication as I have found they have their uses, but often these are used when a much stronger antibiotic is called for.
My curiosity is that this may be a warning that needs to be noted with these treatments, but only the tests I prescribed would tell for sure.
I do not currently have any O2 test kits, or I would send you one.
I am still looking for one such as the Salifert (my distributor sells Salifert, but not their O2 test kit)
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Dec 5, 2012 18:31:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I've used both medications before, separately and together, and never had an issue.
I don't have an O2 test either and since I've returned everything to normal, it's moot anyway.
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Post by Carl on Dec 5, 2012 19:19:41 GMT -5
Yes, but I am still curious as to how low your O2 might be during the cycle when the air is off. Because it may well be that if low enough, the addition of Melafix/Pimafix may be just enough to tip the O2 levels to a dangerous point and if so, it is something I would like to warn others with planted aquariums of, if only a possibility. I have looked around and so far all the distributors I use have discontinued the O2 Test Kit (I would be willing to send it to you for free just to see if we could gleen some information here). That said, if you are done; I understand too  Carl |
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Post by parker002 on Dec 6, 2012 8:38:08 GMT -5
If you are going to send me one for free, I won't argue. Anything for science.  |
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Post by parker002 on Dec 7, 2012 16:53:02 GMT -5
And on the heels of this strange incident, I discovered today that my angels are breeding...
Weird all the way around.
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Post by Carl on Dec 7, 2012 17:20:36 GMT -5
And on the heels of this strange incident, I discovered today that my angels are breeding... Weird all the way around. Well this is a certainly a twist/turn for the positive! BTW, I am waiting for the test kit to become available again from the distributor Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 7, 2012 18:20:00 GMT -5
I don't keep live plants in my tanks, but just a thought, when you turned off the air pump, did you have (sorry I may have forgotten the proper name) something that generates C02 for your plants or was Seachem Flourish Excel (or another product that can raise C02 levels) very recently added to your tank when that happened? Just a thought per the fish dying from lack of oxygen. Sorry that a few died. I am happy the rest appear to be OK! I hope you are able to find the cause!
Renee
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Post by parker002 on Dec 10, 2012 10:14:52 GMT -5
No, I probably should have clarified that.
I have no done CO2 injection for several months and no longer use added ferts or CO2 of any kind simply because I don't have any plants any more that require it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 13:43:02 GMT -5
Thanks for this thread, Parker. Yes, I know this is an old one....
I just looked to see what other posts you have made....my pond post was "tongue in cheek"....I know nothing about how to keep a pond - BUT I am glad you do try safer to the environment treatments first.
Oxygen test kits are hard to find. I bought the Salifert Oxygen test kit from Pet Solutions, but I noticed they discontinued a lot of the Salifert test kits recently.
Carl, when you get some in stock, post to the group. I didn't see the Oxygen test kit on your site, yet.
Judy D
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Post by parker002 on Oct 6, 2014 16:33:39 GMT -5
The odd thing is my setup hasn't changed since this post was made (in late 2012). I've used the Pima/Melafix combo several times since then and have never had this happen again.
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Post by Irahim on Sept 18, 2015 8:03:56 GMT -5
I have personally experienced this when using melafix; it seems to affect gill function. Some fish will suffer more than other as some fish like Corydora, Bristlenose, etc can gulp from the surface so do better. Some on the other hand have no coping mechanism for low oxygen and suffocate very quickly.
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Post by Toby on Oct 28, 2022 11:50:13 GMT -5
I have a 125 gallon aquascape with 14 medium sized discus and 4 larger discus. I’ve noticed some fin rot so added melafix and pimafix as directed. I usually do 25% water changes twice a week and add prime. This week I skipped the water change per the directions on the med bottle. After the fifth day I did the 25% water change and added the prime and a little aquarium salt. Put in more meds and Eve was fine the first hour. Walked away from the tank and when I returned 4 hours later all the discus were dead. Anyone know what may have happened?
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Post by Carl on Oct 30, 2022 12:18:49 GMT -5
I have a 125 gallon aquascape with 14 medium sized discus and 4 larger discus. I’ve noticed some fin rot so added melafix and pimafix as directed. I usually do 25% water changes twice a week and add prime. This week I skipped the water change per the directions on the med bottle. After the fifth day I did the 25% water change and added the prime and a little aquarium salt. Put in more meds and Eve was fine the first hour. Walked away from the tank and when I returned 4 hours later all the discus were dead. Anyone know what may have happened? see comment here: everythingaquatic.proboards.com/thread/5289/discus-fish |
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