fish are sick and dieing

[tfaulk88]

i have 3 tiger barbs 3 rosie barbs a ghost knive and a pleco i had a 30 gallon talk and it ran fine for about a year no troubles but i got a 75 gallon tank for my mother in law i set it up let it run for about 2 weeks the then transfured the fish to it the ghost knife was alot more active in the new talk swim all over the place usualy he just hides the the next day i came out and he was dead laying down flat on the bottom like a week after that my 2 of my tiger barbs started swimming around funny then thier eyes started to turn white and thier fins turned white then they died i about a week after that my last tiger barb left is starting to do the same hasnt died yet but swims around weird and turning white the rosie barbs seem fine but my pleco seems to be acting strange now to idk what to do someone please help i havent tested the water i lost my cards for my test kit

[Carl]

First I am very sorry to read about the loss of these fish you have had for quite some time up until the transfer

My thought is ammonia/nitrites, as unless you performed an adequate media transfer, two weeks is not long enough to establish your nitrogen cycle

The above is the most likely cause, however there may have been some sort of contamination of the aquarium (not very likely though IMO). Poor Filtration, Circulation may have also played a role (what are your filter(s)?)

I would definitely read this article:
Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

If you have any more details, please add them too (such as any new fish, how you acclimated the existing fish, etc.)

Carl

[parker002]

Like Carl said, my first suspicion would be ammonia poisoning - 2 weeks is a very short cycle time and I would be surprised if it it fully cycled after that short of a period...

[tfaulk88]

its a 75 gallon tank i got two filters on it a marineland 60 gallon filter with two biowheels on it and just a ragular 30 gallon filter aqueon i figured i wouldnt have to wait as long for the nitrogen cycle cuse i let the tank sit for two weeks then drained about 20-25 gallons out of it and refilled it with the water from my 30 gallon tank and i took some of the gravel from the 30 and put it in the i figured it would b ok if i did that idk if the tank would be contaminated or not it did sit for about a year or to in a basement all i did was wash it out with water and then filled it

[tfaulk88]

thank you guys very much for the help also i have a water tester kit where u drop the drops in to the tube and then it turns a certain color to test the ph and amonia and everything else but i lost the cards to compare the color to

[goldenpuon]

Even if you don't know the water parameters, Nitrite and Ammonia, since the Carl and Parker (they are both knowledgable about fish) mentioned it could be an ammonia or nitrite spike, I would recommend you try to do a small water change. Say 20% every other day.

Based on what you said, the fish may be too far gone to make a recovery with water chnages alone. However, if they show signs of improvement after the water changes, it would point to that the water quality was the problem.

Of coure, this is BASED on the assumption that this is an ammonia and nitrite problem. It could be something else such as a disease.

Best of luck with your fish!

Renee

[Carl]

You can find API Color charts here for free:
Downloads; API Test Kits

Unfortunately water transfer does almost nothing to help seed an aquarium.

From the Nitrogen Cycle Article:
"Relatively new scientific evidence shows nitrifying bacteria to be sticky and adheres to the surfaces like glue, so agitation of filter media when rinsing (no tap water), or vacuuming of gravel will not destroy these colonies. This is why water exchanges between an established aquarium and a new (non-established) aquarium usually are ineffective for cycling aquariums, why changing water during cycling will not harm the bacteria (maybe only cut back on “food” for the bacteria in the water column), and why the myth of UV Sterilizers killing beneficial bacteria is just that, a myth."

The transfer of substrate can help, however unless you have an undergravel filter, most of your nitrifying substrate is in your filters.

I wish I could give you more help, there is likely not too much that can done at this point.
I would change water as goldenpuon suggested, and maybe use Prime & Stability after this water change.

Carl

[bikeguy33]

ph shock would be my guess iff you transfered media. the 2 waters could be very different...and ghost knives in particular are very suseptible to sudden ph changes. when you get the test kits and we have some solid numbers we will be much more helpful. btw, sorry you had to go through this. it is tough...and a fresh feeling to me as i lost my octopus a week or so ago...

[bikeguy33]

btw....do you scrub the sides of the tank with plastic scrubbies? some of those have diff chemicals on them which often poison the water. i have seen similar results by clients using grocery store scrubbies and turned out there was soap right in the scrubbies.

[tfaulk88]

my ph is around 6.0 or 6.5 ammonia is around is either 0 or .25 nitrite is 0 nitrate is inbetween 5.0 and 10

[tfaulk88]

thank u guys a ton for the help much apreciated and thank u carl for providing a link to the test colors.

[bikeguy33]

hmmmmm...ph is just a lil low...but close.....

[Carl]

Good point bikeguy about the pH, as I have seen pH shock kill many fish, although usually after long shipping times, but also in transfer from one aquarium to another.
Usually evidence of this is immediate from my experience, but not always.

What would be helpful to determine this would be to know the pH of the other aquarium, so as to determine that amount of change.

For more about pH, see this article:
Aquarium Chemistry; pH

Carl

[tfaulk88]

so should i try to get the ph up

[Carl]

Dec 12, 2010 14:59:20 GMT -5 tfaulk88 said:

so should i try to get the ph up

Maybe, but chasing pH can be even more dangerous as this is what causes ph shock (rapid changes in pH), generally not too low or too high.
It also depends upon what your previous pH was, prior to transfer.

I would strongly urge you to read the Aquarium Chemistry article in full, so as to better understand how and why.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

I would advise against using PH UP because it is a product that raises PH temporarily but does not stablilize it. And at least in my experience if too much or too little is added, the PH can change drasticaklly or hardly at all.

I used PH Up many years ago when I was new to fishkeeping and I remember it just raising the PH too much or after a while, the Ph would just go back down.

Proper mineralization in measured by the KH (Alkalinity) and GH (Hardness) are what are more important and what affect PH.

Adding buffers that stabilize PH to a certain level and don't raise beyond that are good starters. However, it is also good to know why the PH is changing. A few causes inlcude mulm (waste) buildup, certain types of rocks or other things added into the tank.

Of course, since you just added these fish to a new tank, if they weren't properly acclimated, I would say the MOST likely IF the PH shock is the problem (again, assuming this is), it was because the PH in your old tank was very different from that in your new tank. This is a common problem when transfering fish to a new tank with different water. However, I am unsure, based on what you said, if this is the problem or not.

A PH of 6-6.5 is considered very low.

Hope that helps.

[bikeguy33]

6-7 ph is fine for ghost knives...

[goldenpuon]

Oops. I stand corrected Bill.