What to treat with?

[goldenpuon]

I have a goldfish I have had over 5 years and it is in a 10 gallon with another goldfish, Puon.

Oranda went blind a little over 2 years ago when fluid-fille sacs started developing over its eyes (not pop eye).

Over time these have grown bigger and now there is a second sac growing over another.

The point is this fish is slowly going downhill health-wise.

Over time, it has gotten less active and now it sometimes sits on the bottom. HOWEVER, at the first sign I am there or about to feed it, it perks up, and starts looking for food very actively.

Its most recent problem is cloudy round white things appearing on the fish's tail fin. (these don't protrude off the fin at all.)

I have had this same thing happen with a few other goldfish- most famousy Alden in my 40 gallon who seems to get these on and off meaning they disappeara and reappear again and again. (Alden does not have any of these as of late.)

Back to Oranda, ordinarily, I would let the goldfish be and let these disappear on their own. However, Oranda spends a great deal of time at or near the bottom and is not in the best health based on its appearance.

What would you recommend I treat with? I was thinking of using medicated wondershells to get rid of the cloudy, circular spots. I have 3 small medicated wondershells and one large one.

Note: I am hoping to use a pretty mild treatment since these spots (based on experience with fish like Alden) do not seem to harm the fish at least to my knowlegde in small numbers.

Also, I have been told there is nothing I can do about Oranda's eyes as this is likely genetic.

Thanks.

Renee

[bikeguy33]

my recomendation is to do as lil as possible. this fish is getting old....just keep it as comfy as possible with good water and good food. the wondershell is a great idea to keep the water healthy...and maybe a MB bath, at least until there are symptoms from others in the tank...just my 2 cents...

[goldenpuon]

Thanks for the help Bill.

I might try the medicated wondershells. I'm not completely sure though. Puon does not have any of the spots Oranda has.

I know this fish has had this at least a week at a level similar to that I saw today. Today, when I looked at it and noticed it had a worse case than Alden ever had was when I got worried.

Part of the problem may be how much time it spends on the bottom between feedings or perking up I think. It has very long fins that rest on the aquarium bottom when it rests between feeding.

The tank has no gravel and I keep it very clean. However, despite this, I would imagine since the fish is aging and any debris/waste sinks to the bottom, (where the fish goes), it makes it more likely its fins will get infected by things.

Luckily, the fish still has a very good appetite and goes nuts when I put food in like it did in its younger days. It has gradually been going downhill over the past 2 years. First the blindess and sacks, then a decrease in activity and now, over the past couple months, lying at the bottom often.

The two goldfish I got at the time I did Oranda, (also over 5 years since I got them) are Foneme and Aztec. Both also seem to be going downhill a but as well though both are very active and have great appetites. (they do not have eye problems OPranda has or go to the bottom). They were bought from the same source at the same time with Oranda. They are in a 40 gallon with 6 other healthier goldfish (some of these fish I have had about the same amount of time and others I have ahd a couple years less).

Renee

[Carl]

I agree with Bill (bikeguy).

Since you already give good care (the bare bottom tank is a good idea too for disease prevention with goldfish), there is not too much more you can do.

I know you do not like performing Methylene Blue Baths, so maybe the Medicated Wonder Shells can suffice, especially since these are not too strong and are not too harsh on the aquatic environment (they still are medicine though and over use can 'mess' with water parameters).

I would not try much more unless some other symptom presents itself, and even then I would be wary of any new symptom truly being "new" and not just another opportunistic variation of symptoms on a weak fish.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Based on what you have two have advised and my own judgement, I have decided not to add medicated wondershells for now.

Thanks again for the help. If any new symptoms show up, I will bring them up.

Renee

[bikeguy33]

the wondershell would be a benefit in this case Renee

[goldenpuon]

Oops, sorry. When you said, "my recomendation is to do as lil as possible." and Carl said, "(they still are medicine though and over use can 'mess' with water parameters).", together with the other stuff in your posts, I misinterpreted it as meaning, that wondershells are a good idea but it might also be good to leave things be too.

My mistake. I hadn't realized you were opting more toward using the 'medicated wondershells.'

I'm going to add the medicated wondershells now that I know this. But just one question before I do, I only have 1 large medicated wondershell and 3 small ones.

Right now, my mom wants me to get my own credit card (I am way overdue for this : to buy from Carl's site instead of using her's due to money issues. (She will be helping me set it up.) Meaning, I will have to wait a couple days for my mother to help me set it up and activate it befiore I can order anything.

Will the 3 small size medicated wondershells be enough to add? The tank is a 10 gallon. I don't want to add the large because of the possibility of over medicating.

For an update on Oranda, she is not any worse nor any better.

Renee

[goldenpuon]

After talking with Bill last night and getting what he recommended for the number of small medicated wondershells to add, I finally put them in the tank. In added 2 of them.

With Oranda, I am already seeing a difference although it is just behavioral. Oranda is not going to the bottom much anymore although the stuff on her tail doesn't seem to have changed yet (expectantly since it has been under a day since I put the medicane in.)

I am not sure whether her not going to the bottom is a good sign or maybe that she just doesn't like the feeling of the shells and anything else from them released into the water at the bottom of the tank.

Puon, who also has problems, ( a mouth deformity) and also quite a bit of bloating. (It is also probably a deformity that led to this.) Puon also sometimes spends time on the bottom, some of which is from being weigted down from its problems.

This fish however is not blind and is much more active than Oranda, especially when I approach the tank and it begs for food. (I have also had Puon over 5 years)


Last night, after I added the wondershell, I noticed Oranda pacing and Puon seeming very nervous. Tjis was at midnigth when i expected they would be asleep. (This is probably due to me cleaning the tank before I added the wondershell and then rearranging the tank quite a few times within the past week, as well as adding the wondershell.)

Fortunately, this afternoon they are not on edge and doing well.

[Carl]

It seems your fish are doing better!

Keep in mind, based on their history, these guys are likely to get worse again (sorry to be negative, I just do not want to give too much false hope, if only to not provide false hope in medications always working)

I think you give your goldfish about the best care possible, and this likely has a lot to do with how long they have survived with inherited weaknesses/health issues.

I am not clear from your post, did you use medicated or regular Wonder Shells?

Carl

[goldenpuon]

I know very well these two have a limited time left. And you are right- they will likely get worse. The most this will probably do is temporarily help them a bit.

To clarify, I am using "medicated wondershells". I added two small sized ones to the tank as per Bill's advice.

I do take very good care of them and keep their tank clean, (too clean.) However, I have stopped soaking Puon's food before I feed the fish which is not good for its bloatation issues. I always put the food underwater to moisten it but soaking it for a few minutes would be better.

Thanks for the compliment. My fish mean a lot to me.

As for an update on hopw they're doing today, Oranda is still off the bottom but the spots on her tail don't look much better (perhaps a tiny bit).

Also, Puon is having one of its 'off days'. Puon is resting on the bottom a lot due to its bloatation problems again although it si eating well and comes up to me begging whenever I approach the tank.

(It is normal these days for puon to have these problems.) In fact, Puon has been doing this for months, at least 4 or 5.

Renee

[goldenpuon]

I thought I would post one final update on Oranda and Puon.

I put a carbon in to start to remove the medication from the wondershells last Tuesday. By Thursday (and after a 25% water change), all the medication was gone.

On a positive note, Oranda is not not spending ANY time at the bottom. As well, the stuff on her fins cleared up during treatment (though they are back again now but more mild).

Puon seems unchanged and is still having bloating issues. I do know that Puon eats peas well.

I am going to see what I can do about capturing Puon every other day to give it de-shelled peas until its problem is under control.

I would give it to Puon in the tank but the other fish in there- Oranda has no such problem and cleanup with peas can be difficult. As well, I used to capture Puon in a cup to eat about 4 years ago so if the fish has any memory of this, it may help in getting it used to being put in a container to eat.

Renee

[bikeguy33]

not sure if daily excersions are the best for puon. stress of being moved is very high in these cases. try maybe a feeding ring or some other way....even a breeding trap is better than removal...

[goldenpuon]

The peas sink once they are de-shelled.

I have a container that I used to feed the fish in I put in the tank. Oranda is blind and unlikely to find it so maybe putting peas in there for Puon will work.

Thanks for reminding me of that Bill. You have a good point. There are always other ways.