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Post by bikeguy33 on Dec 17, 2009 20:36:47 GMT -5
I have very little to add except get rid of the undergravel filter. for the time being,I`d get the gravel out, then the undergravel screen thing....keep the powerhead, and have a bear bottomed tank for awhile. this will easily get your levels under control....btw, what canister filter is it? the canister should be enough filtration. and if the canister is doing its job tho, the UGF shouldnt cause a problem...
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Post by Carl on Dec 17, 2009 20:37:38 GMT -5
The lump on your new Angel is worrisome, it may be a cyst (infection under the epidermis), tumor, or maybe even a parasite (although I doubt this at this point). There is not too much you can do, but I would suggest painting this guy with Methylene Blue as this gets absorbed quite well under the tissue, especially if their are breaks in the tissue. A medicated bath with salt & MB (& possibly Usnea) might be in order too. That bucket of water looks like someone with a severe case of intestinal flu had an accident  Carl |
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Post by babygeige on Dec 17, 2009 21:57:00 GMT -5
I'm trying to hold off on removing the UGF until I know exactly what's going on with the tank. I've been taking a 5 gallon container of my house water over there to do water changes with. The well water at this house is just terrible. The cold water smells bad and the warm water smells even worse. You can't even run the hot water for longer than 15 seconds without gagging from the rotten egg smell. So it's going to be very difficult to do such a drastic measure there. The ideal would be if I could just do all that when if I get to bring it over here. I will try to get the angel into a bath of MB. I am not capable of doing a swab onto the body of a fish. I'm too squirmy, to say nothing of the fish being squirmy!  The canister is a Magnum 350. I suppose it's ok, but I have a terrible time with the hoses and double valves on it. I don't think the hoses are correct for the system. They weren't on right to begin with and it took all my dad's strength to get them on right, and he is not a weak man by any means. I had to undo the valves on Monday to clean out the canister because it got clogged, and one popped loose again. They're just ridiculous. |
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Post by Carl on Dec 18, 2009 9:56:39 GMT -5
I understand about the squirming fish (I use bare hands whenever possible so as to not injure the fish further). You might consider a Sponge filter while removing one plate of the UG filter at a time, to take over for some of the bio filtration (although with this much gravel packing, the aerobic bio filtration being performed by your UG filter is questionable). I used many Magnums over the years, they were especially adapt for custom systems where I installed them in drilled pre-plumbed aquariums where they powered fluidized filters (for more bio filtration) and/or UV Sterilizers. Another plus is that their design is quite unique from other canister filters and can be set up as a micron filter too for fine filtration. These have about the lowest "flow by" of any canister filter on the market over the last few decades. Now the down side, they have very small capacities and with very dirty tanks can fill and clog up quickly and because they are so efficient (as per no flow by), they often will come to almost a complete stop. The Magnum is generally a weaker bio filter than most canister filters which is why I suggested the additional sponge filter and why I often ran Magnums with Fluidized filters inline or other additional filters. Carl |
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Post by babygeige on Dec 18, 2009 22:57:41 GMT -5
Now the down side, they have very small capacities and with very dirty tanks can fill and clog up quickly and because they are so efficient (as per no flow by), they often will come to almost a complete stop. The Magnum is generally a weaker bio filter than most canister filters which is why I suggested the additional sponge filter and why I often ran Magnums with Fluidized filters inline or other additional filters. Carl That is exactly the problem I had this week. They had a replacement micron filters in the tank stand, so I removed the carbon container and put that in instead. I also bought one of those spongy blue sleeves to put around it. I got the filter running last Wednesday and by Monday it had clogged! I suppose with the amount of algae bits floating around, it's going to happen. I clean off the intake tube basket every time and every time I go back, it's covered too. You know, I was thinking about putting a sponge filter in there, and then I completely forgot! Too bad I just ordered stuff last night!  |
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Post by kagome on Dec 18, 2009 23:26:06 GMT -5
I think you should be commended for all your hard work trying to help out both the owner and the fish themselves. Pat yourself on the back for all your hard work!!
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Post by Carl on Dec 19, 2009 10:34:03 GMT -5
That is exactly the problem I had this week. They had a replacement micron filters in the tank stand, so I removed the carbon container and put that in instead. I also bought one of those spongy blue sleeves to put around it. I got the filter running last Wednesday and by Monday it had clogged! I suppose with the amount of algae bits floating around, it's going to happen. I clean off the intake tube basket every time and every time I go back, it's covered too. You know, I was thinking about putting a sponge filter in there, and then I completely forgot! Too bad I just ordered stuff last night! On positive by removing the carbon container and using the micron contain is that you are going to filter out much more suspended organic mulm and lower DOC in this tank. BTW, I would have done this too to move the cleanup along better. The downside is this method of running a magnum has almost 0 biological ammonia/nitrite reducing capacity, so while most of here are obviously not fans of UG filters, I would leave them in until you get the tank where you"want it" (otherwise you may loose all bio capacity and then have a disastrous ammonia/nitrite spike) and then add the carbon container back in and do not fill only with carbon but with bio media such as Matrix or ceramic media (Matrix is better for magnums due to more capacity in a smaller space/volume). As well maybe at this time introduce a Sponge filter. As kagome stated, congrats on all your hard work.  Carl |
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Post by babygeige on Dec 27, 2009 15:54:01 GMT -5
Well, now comes the fun part. The fish owner has moved back home, so it's going to be difficult to get over to his place to check on the fish. He has a rottweiler that probably doesn't know me well enough to let me go in the house if she's loose in there. If she's in her kennel, it's right next to the fish tank, so she'll bark at me if she doesn't remember me.
Plus, he can be hard to get a hold of at times to make arrangements to go there when he's there to keep an eye on the dog. What I might have to do is test the water, and if the nitrates are at a tolerable level, I might just bring the fish home and put them in my 30 until something is decided about his tank. I don't have any way of quarantining them, but none of them seem to have any visible signs of illness, except for the angel's weird bump. It's a crap shoot, but I'm not sure what else to do. If it's going to be tough to get over there to take care of the fish, they're best shot might be to just come home with me.
What do you guys think?
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Post by Carl on Dec 29, 2009 10:37:26 GMT -5
Sorry I am late getting back to this thread.
IMO, Based on what you have said here, I think the best chance these fish have is for you to take them home.
A slow drip introduction (with Methylene Blue) can help limit risk of disease transfer and also help with shock.
Carl
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Dec 29, 2009 13:02:24 GMT -5
What about getting a cheap 30g rubbermaid tote from Walmart as a QT? run an HOB on it for filtration...that way you can bring 1/2 the tank water home with you. I am planning on that when I go get my new Black Bar Endlers (getting around 150).
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Post by babygeige on Dec 29, 2009 18:53:35 GMT -5
What about getting a cheap 30g rubbermaid tote from Walmart as a QT? run an HOB on it for filtration...that way you can bring 1/2 the tank water home with you. I am planning on that when I go get my new Black Bar Endlers (getting around 150). I thought about doing that, but I don't have any way of heating it. It gets too cold in my house in the winter, they'd either freeze to death or be shocked/weakened to where they'd get sick anyway. If it were summertime, I most likely would do that. But i think I'm just going to have to take my chances with a slow drip and MB into a 5 gallon bucket wrapped in towels. I'm hoping I'll be able to go get them tomorrow or Thursday. I haven't been there since Christmas Eve. I'm sure the canister filter is clogged again. The owner has decided that he wants to keep the tank and set it up again someday in the future. I told him I'd help him when he's ready. So I have to make arrangements for the pleco to find a good home. If only he would stay his current size, about 6 inches, I'd keep him. He's actually growing on me. AND he'd have to not dig up my plants. I'm pretty anxious about that part of having him move into my 30, especially since I just planted a bunch of new ones last week.  |
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Post by babygeige on Dec 31, 2009 11:03:14 GMT -5
Ok, I'm now the slightly nervous owner of 3 little misfit fish, lol.
I was able to go pick them up yesterday evening. I transported them in a 5 gallon bucket with about 2 gallons of MB water in it. Covered up with a towel to prevent escapes into the car.
I did a drip acclimation for about 2 hours.
I was pleasantly surprised. Then angel and pleco don't look as big in my tank as I thought they would. They actually look good in there.
As of now, they are all doing ok. The angel hasn't eaten or attacked of my fish, and the pleco hasn't dug anything up yet. I'm not getting too excited yet, but I'm "cautiously optimistic."
The cory is just being a silly cory. Given my track record with cories, however, I'm not going to get too attached to him.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Dec 31, 2009 20:01:28 GMT -5
Glad you got those babies home!!!
Lori
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Post by Carl on Jan 3, 2010 12:37:02 GMT -5
I was pleasantly surprised. Then angel and pleco don't look as big in my tank as I thought they would. They actually look good in there. As of now, they are all doing ok. The angel hasn't eaten or attacked of my fish, and the pleco hasn't dug anything up yet. I'm not getting too excited yet, but I'm "cautiously optimistic." I am glad all went well and these fish seem to fit in even better thn expected. Carl |
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Post by kagome on Jan 3, 2010 22:56:53 GMT -5
Wow, you have put some serious effort into this and I really hope they do well now that you have them home with you.
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Post by babygeige on Jan 9, 2010 16:12:49 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Things still seem to be going pretty well. Since I've been able to get a good look at the Angel through clean glass now, I noticed that eyes were a bit cloudy, so I've been treating with Melafix. I think they are getting better.  Here is the cory. He really seems to be coloring up nicely now. Some day I will have to get him some friends.  And here is the pleco. He's a pretty shy guy, but one evening he ventured out and decided to hang out from under the pre-filter sponge.  |
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Post by Carl on Jan 9, 2010 17:01:03 GMT -5
The fish look like they are doing quite well! Is that an Oto Cat in the bottom picture? Boy, he is sure fat! Carl |
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Post by kagome on Jan 9, 2010 17:26:24 GMT -5
I'm glad to see them all doing so well. What variety of cory is that? If he had blotches I would think a peppered cory but I didn't see any. Maybe it's just the lighting. If you get him some buddies make sure they are the same variety because a lot of times they will only school with their own kind. It's remarkable that all of these guys have pulled through this and I'm so glad that a knowledgeable person like yourself took care of them. If they had just been dumped into a new tank with no treatment of the old tank and no acclimation they probably would have died within hours. Good job saving them!
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 9, 2010 18:15:35 GMT -5
Ditto! Great job! The angelfish has some nice coloring IMO.
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Post by babygeige on Jan 10, 2010 21:53:33 GMT -5
Is that an Oto Cat in the bottom picture? Boy, he is sure fat! That's my Flying Fox! He is super fat. I've been noticing that he's really porked up in the last few weeks. At least it's an all around fat, and not a weird looking bulge or anything, so I'm not too concerned at this point. He just likes to eat, I guess. Kagome, I think the cory is a Bronze Cory. I will make sure to try to get the same kind. I didn't know they didn't always school with other species, thanks. I feel bad for the pleco, because since he hides during the day for the most part, he doesn't eat when the other fish do, and I don't always remember to put an algae wafer in the tank when the light goes out. The poor guy is probably hungry. |
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