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Post by babygeige on Dec 5, 2009 12:14:09 GMT -5
I may be adopting some fish sometime in the next few days! A friend of my dad asked me to go to his house and take his fish. His wife passed away over the summer and he has a hard time being at the house, so he's staying with other friends for the time being. One of his neighbors has been feeding the fish, but he wants me to take them. The problem is that I don't know what he has! He says the tank's got a couple of angel fish and a few other "small fish." His wife was the one who bought the tank and took care of it, so he has no idea what they are. My 30 gallon doesn't have many fish in it right now, so I'm not worried about overstocking. As long as the few "small fish" aren't aggressive types, I think I'll be ok. My other concern is "old tank syndrome." I kind of doubt the water has been changed in his tank for a long time. I may see if it will be possible for me to go over there and do a few water changes over the next week or so before I bring them home, just so they aren't shocked when they get to my house and clean water. I will keep you posted on my adoption proceedings. Wish me luck!
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Post by Carl on Dec 5, 2009 14:30:43 GMT -5
Good luck Stephanie.
I agree as to the "old tank syndrome concern" too. Maybe place these fish in a bucket (that is kept warm I might add) and VERY slowly drip water from your tank into this bucket to prevent pH shock or shock from other parameters as well.
Carl
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Post by babygeige on Dec 5, 2009 16:26:40 GMT -5
That's my plan B if it's going to be too difficult to get to his place a couple of times during the week. His house isn't far from mine, but the friends that he's staying with are about 40 minutes away and he works down toward Pittsburgh, so it might be tricky.
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Post by babygeige on Dec 6, 2009 13:10:32 GMT -5
Ok, well I went to Tony's house to look at the fish. The tank is in pretty bad shape, maintenance-wise. I did a quick test of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Ammonia wasn't too bad surprisingly. I don't remember exactly what is was. A light green on the chart, maybe 25-50 PPM...? Nitrites were 0! Nitrates are OFF THE CHART.
There is a HUGE BBA problem in this tank. It's all over the gravel, decor. The tank is filtered with an undergravel filter, which I didn't realize until after I shut everything down to do a water change/vacuum. I hope I didn't cause too many toxins to get released out of the gravel. I changed about 6 gallons of water. It's a corner tank, so I'm not sure how many gallons it is. If I had to guess I'd say about 50...
There is also a canister filter in there that I'm sure is quite disgusting. I have to do some reading up on them this evening to figure out how to maintain it.
There was only 1 angel left, a cory of some sort, and a pleco of some sort. I took a couple of pics with my phone, but my computer won't read the SD card, so I'll have to fight with it later.
As far as I can tell the cory and the pleco are in decent shape, but the angel looks pretty rough. It's fins are ragged and I think there is something funky going on with its eye.
I feel a little overwhelmed. I want to help these guys, but I'm just not sure where to start!!
If I can get these pictures to my PC, I'll post them for you guys to see.
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Post by Carl on Dec 6, 2009 15:11:03 GMT -5
I am not surprised at all with the "numbers" you found; very high nitrates often along with low KH and pH are what I commonly found when called out to check a "neglected" aquarium by a client. With UG filters, I would often stick a siphon directly under the plate to remove mulm. Canister Filters are actually more simple IMO as outside of the smell when opening, the risk of contamination is non existent since it is not inside the aquarium. The canister filter is notorious for holding copious amounts of decomposing organic mulm if not serviced regularly (thus becoming nitrate factories as they are often called, especially among saltwater fish keepers). See: Aquarium Filtration; Canister FiltersAquarium CleaningCarl
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Post by babygeige on Dec 6, 2009 18:35:44 GMT -5
Should I leave the UGF running while I clean the tank? I'm really afraid I killed the fish by turning it off today. Does all that gas and bad stuff really get released when the power goes off? That's what my dad told me when I was getting my first tank. He said that's why UGF's are a bad idea because if they lose power, they'll kill the fish that way. I don't see anything about that in your article, so maybe my dad is wrong... I hope...? I really just am afraid of cleaning this tank with that stupid filter. It'd be great if I could get it cleaned out enough to where I wouldn't even run it. UGF's just seem like too much work to me. If I want biol-filtration, I'll add more lava rock or sponge filters or something! Here are the pictures I took today. 2 things to keep in mind,: 1, these were taken with my cell phone, so they're not too good. #2: I didn't think to take these pics until after I vacuumed a bit, so the water is cloudier in these pics than it was when I got there. Here a pic of the pleco. Not sure what kind he is. Here another one. This one's pretty bad. You can kind of see the angel in the back there. I'll try to get better pics tomorrow. Heaven knows, I'll be there enough over the next few days.
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Post by kagome on Dec 6, 2009 23:46:30 GMT -5
The pleco looks like it could be a common or maybe even a bushy nose. Does he have any bristles on his face? These poor fish. I understand the situation, I don't think I could stay at my house if my husband died, but I also have a lot of sympathy for the fish. If at all possible a pic of the plecos head would go a long way to helping identify him. It's very good of you to try and fix these guys up. Is he giving you the tank as well?
I have to agree with you about the UGF. I hate those things and think they are way more trouble than they are worth.
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Post by Carl on Dec 7, 2009 10:30:26 GMT -5
Sorry I could not get back sooner, much to do Sunday. Anyway I would recommend leaving the UG Filter running while be cleaned, as I agree is correct. What happens is all this mulm that attracts aerobic bacteria goes anaerobic within hours of being shut down, this results in a plunge in Dissolved oxygen levels and increases in Hydrogen Sulfides. Sorry that my articles are not that specific as to this potential problem (I will correct this later). As I do note in the filtration article and the cleaning article, using a siphon directly under the plate is the best way to remove the mulm. After cleaning this out, you could set up a Sponge filter and then remove each UG plate with a 3 week gap between this process. See also this article: Aquarium Answers; Hydrogen Sulfide Production (including UG FiltersAquarium Filtration; Canister, Under Gravel FiltersCarl
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Post by babygeige on Dec 7, 2009 18:17:54 GMT -5
Don't apologize Carl! I know you're busy! I went there again this morning and changed another 8 gallons of water. I left the powerhead running while I did this. It's so annoying because it's spraying everything. The light was sitting in a puddle of water! I turned down the flow a little bit, but I think I jostled something when I did that because it seemed to be getting some air in it somehow. The tank is getting some good aeration right now because I have no idea how to fix it. By the time that happened, I was so irritated with everything there that I just wanted to leave. I don't know what the wattage of the heater is, but it's not able to keep the tank warm enough for the angel. The house is set at 51 degrees and the tank is around 72. Poor Mr. Angel is hanging out in the back. I have an old 50 watt that came with my 10 gallon kit that I'm going to take over there to see if it will help at all. Oh, and the light isn't on a timer. It's on 24/7. I didn't feel like fighting with the electrical setup there, so I just unplugged it for today. I discovered that the canister filter was running, but not doing anything. I believe the intake tubes are clogged with algae. I got the canister itself cleaned out and tomorrow my project will be to get the intake and output tubes cleaned out. Then I'll be able to hook the canister up again and hopefully it will help clean the tank up. The gravel is very compacted. I'm not going to be able to get under the UGF plate. It's really hard to dig into the gravel with the siphon. The best I can hope for right now is to just get some of the mulm out of the gravel itself. He hasn't given me the tank. My dad thinks he may offer it to me, but as of now, it isn't mine. I'm not going to be able to take these fish into my tank. I believe they are simply too big. If he doesn't offer me the tank, I'll have to just offer to go to his place once a week or so and take care of it for him, assuming I can get things back to where they should be. I took a few more pictures today with my digital camera. Here is the angel. I'm a little concerned about the bubble looking thing on the bottom-front of his body. It's kind of white/shiny in this picture. Is that just a vent for eggs or is it a bad thing? Here's the pleco The whole tank The pleco from the side. It's a little hard to see because there's a window right next to this tank. And the glass is covered in algae spots. I'm working on them!! The tank is high and I am short. BTW, I think this tall algae covered thing in the picture was actually a plastic plant at one time!!! I think I may in over my head here.
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Post by goldenpuon on Dec 9, 2009 15:29:07 GMT -5
You're doing these fish (and the wife's husband that died) a huge favor by helping these fish. Congrats. They should be such a thing as a good samariton fish owner. The tank is looking cleaner already by the new pictures you posted.
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Post by corycatwoman on Dec 10, 2009 13:20:37 GMT -5
the pleco is a common pleco. they will get very large. they say atleast 12 inches. but i had a 30 gallon and mine got almost 20 inches. so i can understand the reasoning of not being able to take in these fish.
and ive never honestly seen a full grown angel before but even the juveniles / sub adults are even really large.
the tank looks good as for the algae unless it was asked to be removed theres no harm in having it other then it looks bad.
and i couldnt help but notice you have the same problem one of my friends had a few months back with his water changes he couldnt get his siphon to bust through the top layer of gravel to siphon the gravel.
all he did was take a sharp pointed object im guessing it was long or attatched to a stick. and his method was to go every inch and poke down to the bottom of the tank and wiggle until the whole tank had jostled loose gravel. then he went ahead and siphoned it the normal way.
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Post by babygeige on Dec 11, 2009 23:43:36 GMT -5
I was able to break through some of the gravel on Wednesday finally! I sort of did what corycat's friend did, but I'm just doing one section at a time instead.
I took today off. I've been doing all these water changes with buckets and a regular siphon, since the python won't go on Tony's kitchen faucet. My back was killing me last night!
The canister filter is up and running again, which is a bit of a relief.
Mr. Angel is more active now that I added an extra heater to the tank. It was only about 72 in there and now I've got it up to 77 or so. The house is only about 52 degrees inside, so that poor heater was really struggling to keep up by itself.
Tomorrow I'm going back over there to get some more gravel cleaned off. Once I get most of the gravel broken up and vacuumed, then I'll try to work my way under the plates to get underneath them. I just worry that trying that with all that gravel compacted on top is going to make a royal mess.
I really wish that dumb pleco wouldn't get so big. He's cute at the size he is now, but I really don't like full-grown common plecos. They're so ugly! I don't know what I'm going to do with him.
I'm hoping that the angel will be able to come home with me. I'm really getting attached to him! Right now he's about 4, maybe 5 inches tall including top fin. How much effect does 10 months of neglect have on a fish's growth?
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Post by Carl on Dec 12, 2009 10:58:36 GMT -5
I am glad to read you are making progress (some time I will need to share some "neglect" house calls I made over the years that literally smelled like death from the rotting fish and other waste) Getting the caniter filter going will help you clean it, as it will pick a lot of the mulm that gets into the water column when you break up the water but do not get it all while vacuuming. As to your angel, it could go either way from my experience; he could be stunted for life and live a less healthy shortened life at that or he can make a full recovery (a lot has to do with how high the nitrates were and for how long as this does cause damage to the kidneys over extended periods) Your slow process of clean up is good to prevent ph shock as well. Carl
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Post by babygeige on Dec 12, 2009 11:10:21 GMT -5
I'm completely guessing at how long this tank has been neglected. It's an estimate based on how long his wife was bedridden before she passed. I could be wrong, maybe she had someone come and clean it for her. But based on the amount of algae and the condition of the canister filter, I highly doubt it.
If I took a few bunches of java fern over there, do you think it would help the water quality? Even a little...? I don't have a lot of it lying around, but I have some floating in my 5 gallon.
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Post by murdock6701 on Dec 12, 2009 13:49:57 GMT -5
Steph - I have been reading this article all along, following closely all your efforts and all the advice - I praise you highly on your attempts to save this tank! does the person for whom the fish you're caring for want to save this tank? I have to admit, I hate UGFs! I learned the hard way many many years ago.....anyway, I would try and find a new home for the pleco, maybe Craigslist - the angel is beautiful - in short, I think I'd swap ot the UGF if it was mine instead of killing yourself trying to clean up poison - short of tearing the whole thing down and starting over, I don't know what to say - please don't take this the wrong way - you have made a valiant attempt above and beyond what most people would have done! either way, I wish you the best of luck!
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Post by babygeige on Dec 12, 2009 18:10:18 GMT -5
Thanks John! The owner of the fish asked me to take them and keep them in my tank. He hasn't been around his house to take care of them and even if he were, he says he doesn't know how to take care of them. I have to see how this all plays out. If he's going to keep the tank in his house, he might as well just leave the fish there. I can show him what to do for the fish during the week, and I wouldn't mind going there once a week or two to do the maintenance. Or if he wants to get rid of the tank, I may offer to buy it from him or something. Then I wouldn't have to worry about what to do with the pleco or worry about whether the angel is going to get too big for my 30. For now, I'm just going to do my best to get the tank into a livable state. Once I get the gravel above the UGF cleaned up somewhat, I may just do what John suggests. Put the fish into a couple of buckets, rip out the UGF and put the gravel back in. I worry if I do that too soon it'll cause stress for the fish. I finally got a decent pic of the pleco. It's a shame, he's kind of cute right now... OH! I found a bottle of that Easybalance stuff that Tetra sells in the cabinet under the tank. I don't know too much about it. It says on the bottle that using it reguarly keeps your tank in "balance" so you only have to do water changes every 6 months. That kind of explains the horrible filth, doesn't it? It also says that it contains nitrate reducing granules... any idea what those are and if they really eliminate nitrate?
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Post by Carl on Dec 12, 2009 18:46:08 GMT -5
I have not used Tetra Easy Balance, but I know others that have (whom I trust their expertise) and their review is not very good. As well , I am not a fan of Tetra products in general, as many I have used usually do not live up to claims. Most importantly, the science behind the NitraBan contained there in does not jive with the science of nitrate reduction. Here is a claim from Tetra: Nitrate Reduction with Nitraban™ – Serves as a nutrient for denitrifying bacteria that consume the oxygen releasing nitrogen from the aquaWhile this can work in theory, one must have a healthy anaerobic nitrate reducing bacteria, and in an aquarium with an under gravel filter in particular, this is next to impossible. Please see this article with a section about Easy Balance: Aquarium Answers; Water ConditionersCarl
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Post by kagome on Dec 12, 2009 23:39:44 GMT -5
Frankly, any product that claims that you don't need to do water changes for six months of you use it is more than likely not worth the plastic it's bottled in. I can really see that the tank is improving. Good job and keep up the hard work. I would talk to the owner about the fact that these fish will not fit in your 30g and see where he stands on the tank. If he doesn't stay there much and doesn't know how to take care of fish I don't really see why he would hang onto it. The way I see it is if you totaled up the hours and gas you've spent trying to fix it up you've more than earned it.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Dec 17, 2009 12:58:59 GMT -5
BBG....Just now read this... YOU GO GIRL!!! I hope you can bring the tank home...I have to agree with Kagome ....if he plans on keeping it due to remembering his wife...then he has a great teacher on how to keep it healthy!!! You are AWESOME!!!!
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Post by babygeige on Dec 17, 2009 19:24:42 GMT -5
Update as of Thursday: Fish are all still alive. Mr. Angel seems to be getting less shy towards me, which is nice. Here are a few new pics. There are bits of algae floating around because I had more issues with the canister filter (I don't get along with this well at all!) I was able to get it running again before I left though. Can you see the weird shiny bulb like thing on the bottom of his body? Is this a bad thing? Here's the tank before I did some more vacuuming yesterday. I'd say I've turned about 30% of the gravel so far. Here's what the water I get out of the gravel looks like. Yum!! Just imagine how nasty it is at the bottom of the bucket!
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