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Post by ironbiker on Oct 26, 2009 16:18:17 GMT -5
Hi All...I`m new to this board but ...not new to Aquariums, I thought I knew what I was doing. But I lost 8 fish overnite and dont know why. I had an established 40 gallon tank (2 years) it has a Fluval 403 filter. I had 10 Africian Cichlids. Yesterday I bought a new 60 gallon high, transferd all the 40 gallon water and the filter and added twenty gallons of new water, treated with Amquel ,Novaqua, PH buffer,and Cichlid salt. The only difference is I changed the gravel, form decoative stone to a natural cichlid aggregate and added a large rock my son found in the woods ( scrubbed clean) this morning all but 2 are dead, the smallest and youngest?  Any ideas??? |
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Post by fishfever on Oct 26, 2009 18:35:09 GMT -5
Welcome to EA ironbiker! Sorry to hear of your sudden loss, that's a bunch of fish to lose so quickly!  It would probably help if you posted your water parameters - pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, GH/KH (if you can measure them). Seems like the Amquel would have kept the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, chlorine, chloramines neutralized... is there any chance the fish saw a sudden large jump in pH or temperature? Did you witness anything unusual in the fish behavior when they were last seen alive? You may also want to check the new water source (I assume tap) to make sure it doesn't have anything wrong with it. Probably would be a good idea to pull the rock out until you find out the cause... |
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Post by Carl on Oct 26, 2009 19:30:35 GMT -5
I agree with fishfever in posting as many parameters as possible (including GH & KH)
What type of rock was this that your son found (sedimentary, granite, etc)?
I also concur as to removing this rock.
I generally soak unknown rocks for days in a brine solution (or even bleach/water for some types).
Let us know your ammonia as well, this may yield some information (even if zero, this could rule out a shock to your bio filter, which based on what you stated, I have my doubts that it could have been compromised that severely).
Carl
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Post by murdock6701 on Oct 27, 2009 20:43:42 GMT -5
I tend to agee on the rock issue - maintaining constant parameters is critical to cichlids - I once put in too much driftwood and my pH almost went to vinegar numbers - I always use granite or marble and boil the hell out of it first - not much consolation after your loss but it might prove beneficial in the long run - did you siphon the water from one tank to the other? where did you put your fish during the tansition period of changing out the water? do you use tap water or well water - lots of questions I know, just trying to figure this one out - loss of that many fish at once could be a combination of things.....do you have cave structures? how large are/were your cichlids? 40 gallons seems a bit small for 10 good sized fish - did you acclimate them slowly first before adding them or just put them in? hope I'm not sounding like a pain in the butt or being critical.....just trying to help......
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Post by ironbiker on Oct 28, 2009 9:02:48 GMT -5
WOW, Thankyou everyone for such a quick reply !!! Tank Size: 60 gals Age of the tank: 2 weeks pH: 8.2 Ammonia: 0 NitrAtes: 0 nitrites: 0 GH/KH: ? Temperature: 82 The shop where I bought my fish, belives I had an Ammonia spike, due to the fact that I used all new gravel when setting up the new tank  they didnt mention that might be a problem, I also bought the tank , light and glass canopy there at the same time).... Although this cant be confirmed due to the fact that I was told Amquel will throw off all my water test results for a least 3 days from the last dose. More facts;;; I didnt notice any unusuall activity AT ALL( approx 8 hrs), after the fish were put in the new tank. The old established tank had perfect water numbers, before I bagged all fish and aclimated them (2 hrs); I then syphoned out the old water to the new tank, added my seasoned filter..added 20 gallons of tap water treated with Nova Aqua, Amqel, Ph buffer and Cichlid salt ..Tested water ...temp and Ph...then introduced fish... all were fine for aprox 8 hrs...the next morning...16 hrs total from fish intro...there were 8 lost fish on the bottom...what is really strange is how 2 survived??? they are small offsping of the lost fish, does there size add any clues to what happened?? The lost fish were about 3 inches in size the 2 remaining are about an inch big. I am thinking this might be related to the new rock I put in  does anyone know if there is a way to verify or check on any possible problems a rock could cause?? Its just a hard black rock , I tried to break it and make a few small ones but it was very hard! I would like to say thank you to all of you who responded with advice so quickly. |
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Post by Carl on Oct 28, 2009 9:54:37 GMT -5
My thought are still with the rock. I am not sure the type of rock, however a hard black rock indicates either metamorphic or igneous which are generally safe, however no guarantees and is why the suggestions murdock & others put forth are a good idea for unknown rocks. As to an ammonia spike I have to respectfully disagree based on your posted parameters. Your nitrites should follow the ammonia spike and it has not. As well Amquel only changes the ammonia ionization and does not interfere with most ammonia test kits. BTW, I recommend Amquel Plus or SeaChem Prime as they are superior products. Another possible problem that would be immediate would be a sudden pH shock (the rock could have induced this as well as the change of substrate). PH changes of more than .5 in a 24 hour period Can cause this. Knowing your KH would be helpful for this, if you could test your GH and KH too? See: Aquarium Chemistry, GH, KH, pH, CalciumCarl |
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Post by ironbiker on Oct 28, 2009 13:18:56 GMT -5
<<< Carl>>>> Thanks for the advice, I`m going to the store to get a GH/KH test kit ,as well as the Prime right now....just did another water test, same results...I`m going to boil the rock an add a little bleach as stated...I`m very leary about when to add new fish....aside from the heartbreak of the loss, they were VERY expensive fish,,,,,,,,a few years ago I sold off my 90 Gallon High, with a Fluval Filter and with the fish...Turquios Severums, beutifull fish!!!! I had that tank and those fish for over 10 years...Never a single problem...i just got back into it when my neighbor offered me the 40 gallon...had that going for 2 years before it started to leak, and now here I am ...the 1st and hopefully last fish I ever lose............... |
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Post by ironbiker on Oct 28, 2009 16:01:53 GMT -5
Ok... GH/KH test results KH=200 GH=220 Also the nitrates are going up, now at 40....0 about 3 hours ago Should I add the Prime or is it just overkill at this point...I really dont want to lose the babies  |
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Post by Carl on Oct 28, 2009 16:18:55 GMT -5
OK, those are good numbers (GH/KH), and although it does not rule out pH shock, it makes it much less likely. As to your nitrates, this simply proves that you have a viable nitrogen cycle in your aquarium, I would not add Prime for this at this point (not that it would hurt either). Since your remaining fish are doing well (correct?), I would only clean the rock. Make sure and use the prime to rid the rock of remaining bleach at the end of the process. BTW, sorry about these terrible losses, it is definitely heartbreaking Carl |
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Any ideas??? 
they didnt mention that might be a problem, I also bought the tank , light and glass canopy there at the same time).... Although this cant be confirmed due to the fact that I was told Amquel will throw off all my water test results for a least 3 days from the last dose. More facts;;; I didnt notice any unusuall activity AT ALL( approx 8 hrs), after the fish were put in the new tank. The old established tank had perfect water numbers, before I bagged all fish and aclimated them (2 hrs); I then syphoned out the old water to the new tank, added my seasoned filter..added 20 gallons of tap water treated with Nova Aqua, Amqel, Ph buffer and Cichlid salt ..Tested water ...temp and Ph...then introduced fish... all were fine for aprox 8 hrs...the next morning...16 hrs total from fish intro...there were 8 lost fish on the bottom...what is really strange is how 2 survived??? they are small offsping of the lost fish, does there size add any clues to what happened?? The lost fish were about 3 inches in size the 2 remaining are about an inch big. I am thinking this might be related to the new rock I put in 
does anyone know if there is a way to verify or check on any possible problems a rock could cause?? Its just a hard black rock , I tried to break it and make a few small ones but it was very hard! I would like to say thank you to all of you who responded with advice so quickly. 
