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Post by parker002 on Oct 26, 2009 10:05:32 GMT -5
I have one female and one male fancy guppy that are left from a group of 4 (the 2 others mysteriously died). They CONSTANTLY harass my femaile dwarf platy, following her around the tank and nipping at her hindquarters. At first I thought it might be the male guppy wanting to breed her, but I've noticed the female doing it too.
She has been pregnant in the past, and I'm wondering if they are looking for fry to eat.
Any suggestions?
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Post by murdock6701 on Oct 26, 2009 13:11:01 GMT -5
is she the only platy in the tank? what size tank? how many fish?
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Post by parker002 on Oct 26, 2009 13:48:17 GMT -5
is she the only platy in the tank? what size tank? how many fish? No, she's the only female dwarf, but not the only female platy. It's a 55g tank with: 3 x Platy (2 female, 1 male) 2 x Dwarf Platy (1 female, 1 male) 2 x Guppy (1 female, 1 male) 2 x Swordtail (1 female, 1 male) 1 x Serpae Tetra 3 x White Skirt Tetra 1 x Danio 3 x Spotted Cory 1 x small Pleco (3") |
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Post by Carl on Oct 26, 2009 19:35:53 GMT -5
Based on your answer to murdock's question, I have to scratch my head and state I am not sure. What I would do is try isolating the aggressors in a breeder net. Keep this pair in there for about 3 days; during this time observe the Platys behavior. If she acts normal, your assumption may be the problem, however if she seems stressed or unusual at all in her behavior she may be sick and these fish were simply harassing her due to weakness Carl |
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Post by goldenpuon on Oct 28, 2009 17:11:20 GMT -5
My guess is that the female may be harassing her. Sometimes my female guppies will get aggressive and chase the others, particularly when there is only 2-3 of them together. I find this to be an issue with fish being dominant over others. For example, I have a female guppy right now with a yellow tail that always chases the other two pretty often. She does not act like she is trying to breed with the others. I make up for it with plastic plants and hiding places.
The platy may be a weak fish or perhaps the female is just joining the male in the courtship display. Does the female guppy ever flare her fins in front of the platy? Male guppies normally flare/display and chase females. If the female guppy displays to the platy, I think there is a possibility she may in fact be a male which would explain the chasing. Just a guess but I hope it points you in the right direction.
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Post by parker002 on Oct 28, 2009 19:16:19 GMT -5
Well, I have a couple of new and interesting issues. I removed both guppies and put them in a breeder net. The female dwarf platy is MUCH happier. However, getting up and close to both guppies brought a startling revelation - they're BOTH males! They both appear to have the "male fin" that my other male live-bearers have. They've been in the breeder net for a couple of hours now. The most colorful of the two (the one that got half-eaten a while back, read more HERE) is starting to LOSE HIS COLOR. He's going white/translucent, almost as if he's covered with a film. He did this while he was injured but come out of it after I released him from the net back into the tank. The other guppy is lying listless, as if dying, in one of the fake plants at the top of the breeder net. I don't know if it's just pouting (do fish do that?) but it certainly does not look healthy at all. I don't really want to kill the guppies, and the net just seems inhumane. But releasing them back into the tank isn't fair to the mama platy. |
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Post by parker002 on Oct 28, 2009 19:19:10 GMT -5
Here's another interesting tidbit...
The serpae tetra that I've talked about, the one we "rescued", is no longer in his corner. I've only seen him outside of his little area a few times since we got the 55g tank.
Since putting the guppies in the net, I haven't seen him IN his corner. He's in the front right of the tank right now, picking at a plant.
Is it possible the guppies are traumatizing the rest of my fish?
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Post by Carl on Oct 28, 2009 20:38:10 GMT -5
I have used breeder nets for years for fish much larger and more delicate than guppies, so I doubt that the breeder net is an issue for the pouting guppy (which I believe fish can act this way after being removed from their home "turf", whether this is pouting as we humans think of it I have my doubts) The guppy with the film is more of a concern. I would suggest a salt bath with Methylene Blue, possibly with Erythromycin in this bath as well at double tank strength per volume of dip water. See Fish BathsA hospital tank may be necessary treating with either Erythromycin, Tetracycline or Kanacyn (or Kanacyn plus Nitrofurazone; do not combine the others though) Carl |
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Post by parker002 on Oct 29, 2009 9:45:13 GMT -5
I have used breeder nets for years for fish much larger and more delicate than guppies, so I doubt that the breeder net is an issue for the pouting guppy (which I believe fish can act this way after being removed from their home "turf", whether this is pouting as we humans think of it I have my doubts) Well, for fear that he was going to die in the net, I released both of them back into the tank. The concern of them harassing the platy was outweighed by the fear of losing fish. As soon as I put them back in the tank, he perked back up. Unfortunately, when I came out this morning, he was gasping on the bottom and out of concern that one of the bigger fish might make him a meal, I put him back in the net. However, this time I put him in there by himself. He seems ok right now, but still very lethargic. My wife recalled the two guppies pestering each other when I first put them in the net yesterday - I didn't see it personally. She chalked it up to breeding behavior and never said anything to me, but that was BEFORE we realized they were both males. My only guess right now is that the larger guppy (the one with more color, that I knew was a male all along) injured the smaller one in some way. The guppy with the film is more of a concern. I would suggest a salt bath with Methylene Blue, possibly with Erythromycin in this bath as well at double tank strength per volume of dip water. See Fish BathsA hospital tank may be necessary treating with either Erythromycin, Tetracycline or Kanacyn (or Kanacyn plus Nitrofurazone; do not combine the others though) Carl I'm not sure I explained this good enough. I'm fairly certain anti-biotics aren't needed, but if you still think so after reading the following, I'll try it out. First, his color changed to this opaque white almost immediately after putting him in the net. He had dark, black leopard-like spots, with a deep black and gold tail prior to putting him in the net. Within 15 minutes or so, the spots and coloration were "dimmer" but not gone - it almost looked like his color had "retreated" deeper within his skin. If that makes sense. Second, when I released him back into the tank last night, his color came back fully within 10-15 minutes. He's perfectly fine this morning, albeit he's right back to pestering the dwarf platy. Third, he changed color like this before - when he was in the breeder net after having his fins nipped. At the time, I figured the color change was due to the stress of having his fins eaten. But again, his color came back almost immediately after being released from the net. It seems to be some kind of stress response or defense mechanism - kind of like a chameleon changing colors. |
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Post by fishfever on Oct 29, 2009 11:28:19 GMT -5
Some fish definitely change colors under stress/mood change. I've seen this especially well in my B.A. tetras - they lighten up under stress or during the night. In the morning when the light comes on their colors become much more vibrant (male more than female). Breeding and aggressive behavior can also trigger more vibrant colors in some fish.
I've used the breeder net on a number of occassions for various reasons (not many having to do with breeding) and of course the fish are going to be happier outside the net but it's very handy to have.
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Post by Carl on Oct 29, 2009 16:33:55 GMT -5
I misunderstood the white color, I thought you had a white slime on th guppy. A color change is not going to be helped by by a bath or antibiotic.  Sorry As for the net, I guess you may have misunderstood me; my point is not that fish are not happy in a breeder net, only that a breeder net will not cause any physiological (physical) damage maybe just psychological stress. In other words I have never documented an otherwise healthy fish die in a breeder net in 100s of uses. Carl |
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Post by parker002 on Oct 29, 2009 20:12:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification. The smaller of the guppies died this afternoon, in the net. He was vibrant and healthy not 24 hours ago and changed visibly the instant I put him in there.
My only guess is that he was injured in the process of putting him in the net.
The other guppy is fine, and interestingly enough, he's not pestering the dwarf platy nearly as much now...
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Post by fishfever on Oct 29, 2009 21:20:52 GMT -5
Hmm that's odd and sorry to hear of your loss... I've only lost one fish (a platy) while in the breeder net but she was in there for a 5th pregnancy which was one too many. But she wouldn't have made it outside the net either.
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Post by parker002 on Oct 29, 2009 21:45:02 GMT -5
Hmm that's odd and sorry to hear of your loss... I've only lost one fish (a platy) while in the breeder net but she was in there for a 5th pregnancy which was one too many. But she wouldn't have made it outside the net either. He wouldn't have made it outside the net either. He was by far the smallest fish in the tank and they would have eaten him in the state he was in. |
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Post by Carl on Oct 30, 2009 9:04:25 GMT -5
Hmm that's odd and sorry to hear of your loss... I've only lost one fish (a platy) while in the breeder net but she was in there for a 5th pregnancy which was one too many. But she wouldn't have made it outside the net either. He wouldn't have made it outside the net either. He was by far the smallest fish in the tank and they would have eaten him in the state he was in. Sorry you lost your guppy  I would not be too hard on yourself about injuring the guppy while catching him, I really doubt this was the cause as fatally injuring a small fish such as a guppy with a net is very difficult (moving a large Pacu or Oscar is another story). As fishfever noted, there was likely an underlying problem. Carl |
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Post by parker002 on Oct 30, 2009 11:04:16 GMT -5
He wouldn't have made it outside the net either. He was by far the smallest fish in the tank and they would have eaten him in the state he was in. Sorry you lost your guppy I would not be too hard on yourself about injuring the guppy while catching him, I really doubt this was the cause as fatally injuring a small fish such as a guppy with a net is very difficult (moving a large Pacu or Oscar is another story). As fishfever noted, there was likely an underlying problem. Carl I hate to sound cruel or evil, but I'm not heartbroken about it. To be perfectly honest, I wasn't in favor of buying them, but my kids thought they were pretty so I acquiesced. We bought 4 and have one left. One female, who was very pregnant when my wife bought them, died in the breeder net within hours of us putting them in the tank. Probably introduced them too quickly and in her state, the change in environment was more than she could bear. Another disappeared for a few days before finally washing up half-eaten. Not sure what actually killed him, because I would surmise he was dead before he got eaten. Things seemed to stabilize after that, until the remaining two started with this obsession of chasing the one female dwarf platy around. I looked the dead fish over before I flushed him and there was definite damage to his tail fin, but that was all I could find. The only thing I can come up with is that the "breeding" behavior my wife witnessed when I first put them in the net was actually fighting and the larger guppy injured the smaller one bad enough to kill him. Like you said, it's unlikely I injured him. And I can't imagine it was infection or something because the onset was virtually immediate. If he was diseased, he surely would have not gone from vibrant and healthy to dying in a matter of a few minutes. I'm still left trying to figure out my original problem. I'm considering taking the guppy back to the LFS and being done with guppies altogether. I don't want to be inhumane, but at this point, I'm ready to not have anymore guppies in my tank. |
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Post by bikeguy33 on Oct 31, 2009 20:35:33 GMT -5
carl and the others have covered this pretty well....but there are 2 points i`d like to mention. altho not schooling fish per say...most of your species with the exeption of the pleco NEED the company of their own kind. most of what you have there can live harmonious togeather and IMO should be kept into groups of 4 or 5. a 55 gallon should suffise for 4 of each. they keep their color better and if ya look close you can almost see them smile.
my next point is this....removing a fish and putting it into a breeding net is very stressful on a fish...especially small ones. putting them into a net and out and back in again frequently is the most stress a fish will go through its entire life. IMO....this should be done as a last resort and i have always recommended a small tank(hospital) and in the case of wee guys like this, a 5 gallon would be enough. this way they can recover over the span of weeks instead of hours, and this can make or break a fish survival....
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Post by parker002 on Nov 2, 2009 15:29:09 GMT -5
carl and the others have covered this pretty well....but there are 2 points i`d like to mention. altho not schooling fish per say...most of your species with the exeption of the pleco NEED the company of their own kind. most of what you have there can live harmonious togeather and IMO should be kept into groups of 4 or 5. a 55 gallon should suffise for 4 of each. they keep their color better and if ya look close you can almost see them smile. Yep, I realize that now. We'll be adding more platies shortly, so that should help. my next point is this....removing a fish and putting it into a breeding net is very stressful on a fish...especially small ones. putting them into a net and out and back in again frequently is the most stress a fish will go through its entire life. IMO....this should be done as a last resort and i have always recommended a small tank(hospital) and in the case of wee guys like this, a 5 gallon would be enough. this way they can recover over the span of weeks instead of hours, and this can make or break a fish survival.... Just to be clear, I only put the two guppies in the net ONCE. I put the smaller one back a 2nd time because I felt he was in danger of getting eaten in the state he was in. But he absolutely started acting sick/injured/lethargic within a few minutes of putting him in the net the FIRST time. At any rate, I appreciate the advice. While I'm not heartbroken about the guppies, I will keep it in mind when tending to my other fish to avoid problems. As a side note, the surviving guppy is now living in a "cave". I have an ornament that has a small opening in it that allows him to back in and hide. He's no longer chasing the dwarf platy - he swims in place inside of the ornament. He doesn't act sick outside of this, and he does come out to eat, but he goes back as soon as he's done. |
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Post by parker002 on Nov 2, 2009 18:30:21 GMT -5
I'm gonna start a new thread, but I'm looking for recommendations on fish to add.
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Sorry
