Fin hemorhages

[stix0504]

I am wondering how long it normally takes for fin hemorhages to clear up. My orandas are doing much better than they were when I first posted in the forums. However, I still see some blood at the ends of two of their fins. They don't appear to have faded out at all at this point.

I searched the forum but I don't seem to have much luck with the search as it always returns 'can't finds' on my searches!

*Edited to add that my water parameters are testing fine too*

Thanks,
Nancy

[Carl]

What have you used up until this point to treat these fish, was it Kanamycin & Furan 2?


Have you performed a bath or even swabbed or dripped the fins with Methylene Blue?

Increasing in tank salt (temporarily) may help as well (to as much as a teaspoon per gallon short term); this will aid in osmoregulation

As well the osmodic function (& Redox) is improved with a constant supply of other important positive mineral ions such as Calcium. Although a GH test kit can give a general idea of this aspect of aquarium health, it does not test for the mineral ions that are also essential, for this reason the constant supply of calcium and other essential mineral ions is important. Water changes can sometimes help for this, products such as Wonder Shells can also add these mineral ions on a steady basis.

Your Orandas may continue to heal and this syptom is often the last to disapear.

See this article for more about aquarium minerals:
Aquarium Chemistry; The Importance of maintaining healthy positive calcium ion levels, GH, pH, KH and electrolyte levels

As well please see this article about Septicemia/Aeromonas for more about fin hemorrhaging:
Treatment of Aeromonas/Septicemia

Carl

[stix0504]

I have been using Furan 2 since last Tuesday (for a 10 day treatment) with water changes every other day. For 3 of the treatments I used Kanaplex (separating treatments to every other day as per bottle instructions). I have maintaintend a tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons in the tank. Should I still be utilizing the Kanaplex?

I have not given any of the three orandas left a bath in MB as they have seemed to improve drastically right away. I didn't think they were still actively ill but rather almost healed (if that makes sense). They are acting ok now, no more bottom sitting, eating well, etc. I just still see at the very end of 2 of their fins a spot of hemorrhageing that hasn't really seemed to lighten (or get worse thank goodness) since this started.

I read the article about Redox but it is a difficult one to understand. From the testing strips my GH and KH are high (always have been because our water is so hard) and PH stays within normal but on the higher end.....so I have wondered after reading about the wonder shells this morning if they would benefit me or raise it higher yet.


Nancy

[Carl]

Nancy, you are likely doing fine in your fish progression of healing, you have utilized your meds correctly IMO as well.

The use of Methylene Blue directly on the fins will penetrate and further aid in healing, although this is not an essential treatment at this point based on your fish' healing.

I understand that Redox can be a difficult concept to understand, here is a a quote from the article that sums up one important thought:
What is important to note, is that although oxidation is a necessary part of biochemistry for fish and all animals (such as for energy production), the normal healthy state is one of reduction. During normal biochemical processes molecules that are normally reducers give up their electrons (in much the same way a car battery does until re-charged), so without a recharging via the addition of new minerals that are high in these electrons or even processes such as UVC sterilization (or even high PAR lighting), your aquatic biochemistry will suffer and eventually so will your fish!

The car battery analogy is a good way to think of it and why test kits such as GH often only give half the picture.

This article may help with understanding of osmoregulation as well:
Aquarium Answers; Do Fish Drink, Osmoregulation

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Sorry to but into your conversation but I have a goldfish (a rescued feeder) who gets some red on its tail fins every so often (nothing serious though, the fish is doing well though also has a genetic deformity as well.) Is that what a fin hemorhage is? I am not clear ont that.

[stix0504]

Thanks Carl. The car battery analysis does help some. Do you think I should still try Wonder Shells?

Goldenpuon, the red on her tail that I am talking about is actually blood in the tip of their fins. At first I saw long strips of the blood (very faint) and then during this treatment it moved to the very end of their tails.

Long story short, about a year and half ago I had a 55 gallon tank full of beautiful large Orandas. I put a pleco in the tank that I bought from what I thought was a reputable store (have since learned otherwise) and neglected to do quarantine.

I bought it because they told me it was an Albino pleco (is there even such a thing?) but I didn't know any better. Within a few days, all my beautiful orandas had what I believe was velvet. They all began to become covered in this white/yellow shimmery spots type of thing and hemorrhage on their bellies and fins There wasn't anything I could do. They developed dropsy dispite my best efforts and an arsenal of medications and I lost all but one regular goldfish (who I still have) within a week. Hard lesson to learn (never neglect quarantine) but lesson learned and never forgotten.

Guess that wasn't so short a story after all but the point I am trying to make is that you can definitely tell if its blood verses normal coloring so I wouldn't worry too much. That story is still hard for me to talk about because I failed my fish in such a big way and paid they paid the ultimate price for my mistake. But, lesson learned.

[stix0504]

One more thing, Goldenpuon....after re-reading your message I think I might have missed where you said 'every so often'....as in it goes away?

I am not sure if that would be hemorrhages or not in your case. Maybe one of the other people on the board can tell you if it could be hemorrhages or not. I thought (of course I am not anywhere near an expert here:) that if it was hemorrhages it was bacterial and needed to be treated with antibiotic. Again, not 100% on that.

[goldenpuon]

Thanks for answering Stix0504. The fish has had it for ages. First it got white spots on its tail bigger than ick and two other fish got it but they never acted sick and the ich med I put in there never cured it. The spots stayed for months but went away on their own eventually without any of the fish stressing out while they had it. I have not seen it on any of my goldfish since.

As for the blood on the fins, this fish has bad this off and on for over 9 months, maybe almost a year now?. She has a genetic deformity as well. I have tried to treat it before and it didn't go away. It just disappeared on its own. I think it is better to leave the fish alone at this point. She does not act stressed or sick otherwise. Thanks for the info though Stix. I was just wondering what blood on the fins was called.

[Carl]

Jul 15, 2009 16:22:41 GMT -5 stix0504 said:

Thanks Carl. The car battery analysis does help some. Do you think I should still try Wonder Shells?

Yes, although once you are done with medication, the UV Sterilizer can help as well, but in a different manner that is both related (as for Redox) and unrelated (the UV does not help with Osmoregulation, where as the Wonder Shells or other mineral blocks can)

Carl
(I am still out of town, just checking in from a borrowed computer)

[kagome]

Not trying to get too off topic, but...Renee, remember me talking about my blue gourami that I used to have, the one who lived almost two years longer than gouramis are supposed to? He had a hemorrhage at the base of one of his pectoral fins when I got him. It never healed but it also never seemed to bother him either. He lived a very long time and did really well and was the master of his tank for many years.

Nancy, I understand that it is very hard for you to talk about your poor goldfish that got infected by putting in the new pleco. I had the almost exact same thing happen, strep rode in on a pleco I bought and is ended up infecting the entire tank and after two months of trying to save them I had to euthanize them and run bleach through the tank. Please, don't beat yourself up about losing these fish. I can tell that you are a responsible fish owner and that you do your best to take care of your fish and that is the most important thing. Quarantine is preferable, however, it is not always possible or practical. I would love to have a quarantine tank but I don't have anywhere to put one so I just have to take my chances. I'm sorry that this happened to you and your fish and I can really sympathize.

BTW there is such a thing as an albino pleco, there are actually many, many varieties of them in the fish trade.

[stix0504]

Thanks kagome...I appreciate it. It was definitely a heart breaking thing. Interesting to know there are albino plecos. I wish there were 'good' pet stores around where I live who actually knew something about the fish they carry.

On a side note, the hemorrhage on blue is now completely gone! So it took a little time to resolve itself apparently but she is looking fabulous!

[Carl]

Jul 19, 2009 4:40:43 GMT -5 stix0504 said:

On a side note, the hemorrhage on blue is now completely gone! So it took a little time to resolve itself apparently but she is looking fabulous!

I am glad to read this good news!

Congrats on a healthy fish again!

Carl