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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jun 29, 2009 18:26:07 GMT -5
At first it was the odd tetra that 'went missing' but i woke up this morning to find a clown loach on his deathbed. Somthing has taken horrific chucks out of him. He is bleeding into the water so i dont think he will live. My concern is WTF did this? I have a 100 gal tank 6 foot long 18 inch tall 18 icnh wide. I have 7 Angels non full grown, 5 black neons, 9 normal neons, 9 rummynose tetras, 2 flame gouramis, 1 electric yellow who is 2-3 ich. 4 swordtails (livebearers A bristnose catfish pair and 3 now 2 clown loaches. Realistically nothing in my tank is any whaere near adult size and im not over stocked. I have a heap of plants so covers not a issue. Im really stumped and upset guys HELP!!. Ps. I will post pics of my tank (coverage etc) later. I have to go up town now. Ill be on in about 2 hours my time.
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Post by Carl on Jun 29, 2009 21:28:36 GMT -5
First, sorry to read this. I will only be able to guess, but a couple of thoughts are that your fish have a disease such as Aeromonas that is eating away at the fish from the inside. As well nematodes can also rupture through the epidermis of a fish and give the appearance you described. Another thought is a combination of a disease (again such as Aeromonas) that has weakened the fish and then other fish have moved in to "finish the job" I have seen Rummynose Tetras act like little Piranha (to which they are related) when other fish are weak/dying. Electric Yellow (AKA Yellow Labs) can also be aggressive, but I have not observed them going after Clown Loaches (although that does not mean that it cannot happen). Please check your water parameters (ammonia, nitrites, pH, GH, KH, nitrates), and refresh our memory of your filters/pumps. Carl
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jun 29, 2009 23:49:06 GMT -5
Ok. I forgot to mention i have a red tailed shark but again hes small. Ive removed the yellow lab to a breeder just for now. I am certain i have no diseases but i will do some research on what youve decribed. My clown is still alive but just....poor thing. MY stats check out fine the only thing is my ph is slightly high but no biggie. I have a 800 litre per hour interal filter and a air rater that pumps out some bubbles =).
So you think it couldve been the shark?? Im still so confused. Surely my Angels couldnt have done it, i mean clowns are FAST!!! Anyway i just got home but im going to go take some pics of my tank and pics of the clown so you may be able to help me more. Cheers Angel
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jun 30, 2009 0:27:53 GMT -5
OK just waiting for my camera to charge.....ive taken the loach out of my tank and have him in a cup for closer inspection....and now im really freaking. If he does have the first disease you mentioned then are all my fish infected??? And how come hes the only one showing syptoms?? Ill try and calm untill i upload some pics but its looking like a flesh eating disease more so then an attack of another fish....
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jun 30, 2009 1:35:25 GMT -5
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Post by Carl on Jun 30, 2009 9:42:21 GMT -5
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Post by goldenpuon on Jun 30, 2009 14:56:55 GMT -5
I'm so sorry that happened to your fish. I do not know what it is but I would trust Carl on the diagnosis. He is very good with things like that. And I would definitely recommend the Methyline Blue bath. I have saved a couple fish on ther verge on death with them. Just make sure you don't spill. Methyline blue with stain practically anything in my experience.
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jun 30, 2009 17:38:07 GMT -5
So its worms??? I have a muliti cure treatment and a white spot treatment that both contain mb but other ingredients as well. Would that work??? And if he has 'this' be what it be are all my other fish infected??? Thanks guys,
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jun 30, 2009 18:14:15 GMT -5
Muliti cure treatment is in the tank.....lets cross our fingers!!!
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Post by Carl on Jun 30, 2009 19:37:32 GMT -5
Methylene Blue will work best in the suggested bath and directly on these "holes" in your fish
What are the other ingredients in Multi cure?
Good luck
Carl
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Post by babygeige on Jun 30, 2009 21:28:50 GMT -5
That sounds awful! I hope you are able to save the loach. Here's hoping no one else is infected! Good luck!
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jul 1, 2009 7:05:20 GMT -5
Ummm heres EXACTLY whats in it. Oh and hes not eating at all. Hes looking alot worse but still alive. How do i do dips? Just literally dip the fish is a bowl of it or get a cotton bud and smear it iver the fish while outta water??What?.. .400mg/ml malachite green 4.00mg/ml methylene blue 2.00mg/ml acriflavine Be quick!!!
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jul 1, 2009 7:20:56 GMT -5
Oh i see the link now carl....all good with the baths...lol
BUT......
If i do a dip bath and a direct application of my mulit cure onto my loach do i use it at the reduced rate for scaleless fish or a full bull (considering ill be then doubling it) . And would all 3 be too much in 24 hours?? My fish is nearly dead im willing to try to save it or kill it trying...
Cheers Angel
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jul 1, 2009 7:40:19 GMT -5
Ok after seeing my loach decline so much between answers (i live in aus and you guys obviously dont) i decided to do a dip joined with a direct application of my mulit cure. I could have just killed the guy but hes most likely dead nowif i dont intervene anyway. He is so skinny now compared to pics and his breathing is laboured. When i did the direct application i found some treatment went straight into his gills. As soon as it did this i placed him in the dip but is this right or very wrong???
hes now back in the 10 gal in a reduced rate mulit cure. Im alittle worried about the green part of the ingredient list. Arnt loaches very sensitive to that??? Maybe a dip wasnt the best idea =/
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jul 1, 2009 7:43:33 GMT -5
Oh i didnt use salt as my rock salt i have also contains iodine...and im almost 100% sure thats not good. I will get some proper salt tomorrow but for tonight the mb will have to do.
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Post by Carl on Jul 1, 2009 9:44:43 GMT -5
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jul 1, 2009 19:01:52 GMT -5
Well hes 'more active' and is afraid of me now when i approch the tank so i guess thats a good sign?? Im going out to by Mb by its self and i will keep bathing him once dailty in that and salt Im still worried carl about my other fish....you have yet to mention if my others are likely to fall ill too??? Ive been looking for any signs but nothing yet. From what i can gather and correct me if im wrong, it was because this clown in particular was 'weak' (be it a fight or water pariimiters) that it is now infected with a parasite. So my other fish should be 'ok' as long as they too dont become 'weak'.......
Somthing along those lines????carl??
Also is a dip and direct application once daily too much or ok.....
Just like to take this moment to thank everyone who has replyed and helped. Such friendly people here. I think armed with the knowledge of this new 'disease' and ways to 'fix' it, i will either save this fish or at least another fish sometime down the track. So from the bottom of my heart guys and in an aussie way, thanks mate!!Cheers.
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Post by fishfever on Jul 1, 2009 20:10:37 GMT -5
I am currently treating a platy for Columnaris and she's getting a twice a day salt/PP bath. It's working well and her patch is getting smaller and smaller but she seems to know when it's bath time and does her best to hide when she sees me (especially with a net in hand - not many fish like being caught). So this is probably the "fear" you are speaking of.
I know when I was treating one of my catfish for a fungus I was giving a twice daily MB/salt bath for about 30 minutes each. But if you are doing a true "dip" versus a bath I would think you wouldn't need to swab as well since the dip is higher concentration anyway and is only for a few seconds I believe. But if you are doing the lower concentration ~30 minute bath then I would be more inclined to do a direct swab (full concentration) to the affected area(s). Check Carl's link that has more info about concentrations and times for dips versus baths. I use a new Q-tip each time to swab the area with MB, usually after the morning bath.
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Post by Carl on Jul 1, 2009 20:21:16 GMT -5
Fishfever made some good points, so the only point more I can make is that the answer to your question if the other fish can get this is unfortunately maybe. Some worms need an intermediate host while others such as Capillari do not and more easily spread to other fish, as well I could also be wrong and this is not worm or other parasite caused. This is why the in tank treatment and the swabbing or dips of MB is also very important, it covers as many bases as possible. Carl
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Post by DaharkazAngel on Jul 1, 2009 23:39:18 GMT -5
Ok carl well i did a bath today with just mb and salt. Its a matter of doing what fish fever pretty much said and crossing my fingers now. I notice his gills turn quite blue after his bath does this mean its too strong or completely normal??? Im doing his baths in about 200ml of water so not much at all,.
Im treating the 10 gal i have him in whitch also has a betta (in a breeder now hes a cranky bum) and a cory with swimbladder. I have made no attemps to treat the main 100 gal as no one has yet shown any symptoms and im quite frankly dreading it =/...Ill keep you guys up dated if you like. Thanks Again Angel
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