offensive?

[danny]

i'm just wondering,will it be offensive for the guys here if someone post a question regarding their hybrid fish?say,they need help with their flowerhorn. ;D

[brenda]

Danny, the people here are very nice and whether or not they like hybrids they will still try to help you with your fish.

[eve]

don't see why that should be in any way offensive

[bikeguy33]

if its got fins we`ll help. lots of us avoid hybrids....but they are still living critters

[danny]

thank you guys,..i do have a breeding pair of flowerhorn.but they are not the type that what flowerhorn lovers call a high grade.the male doesn't even have a big hump on his head nor the bright colors.
in fact,mine are rejects or culled fry,i bought them in really cheap price.my purpose is to gain experience in breeding bigger type cichlids.also,trimacs are not available here,so i just think of my pair as trimacs since they look very close like it. ;D
thanks again.

[goldenpuon]

It's not offensive at all. I myself started with not-so-good quality fish when I first tried breeding fish (bettas).

[barbara]

You like what you like, you keep what you like. I don't think any of us have a problem with that.

[cashay]

I don't understand why you would even think of it being offensive? everyone has their preference's...

[danny]

May 22, 2009 10:24:01 GMT -5 cashay said:

I don't understand why you would even think of it being offensive? everyone has their preference's...

that was just to be sure that i would offend no one if i post questions about hybrids.just thought that most here may be against hybrids.

[brenda]

Even if they are against hybrids they are not going to refuse to help you. They are still living creatures and everyone is here to help regardless of their personal thoughts.

[barbara]

Danny, this forum isn't judgemental on what fish you keep. I know hybrids are a hot topic on a lot of forums, but this isn't one of them.

[danny]

thank you guys for the opinions and for clearing the matter..thank you for the very kind welcome.this forum is so friendly. ;D

[jonv]

Danny what I think is the term offensive may not be what you are trying to convey. I think what you are getting at is that in cichlid keeping, at least in terms of Africans, hybrids are often shunned in favor of keeping bloodlines pure. Now you take your Flowerhorn and even say OB Peacocks which are hybrids, it's accepted in it's place for the most part. I think what you'll find though is that if you start talking about hybriding a bloodline of say Labidochromis Caeruleus and crossing them with like Pseudotropheus Socoloffi or something like that, and then passing them out in the hobby without saying anything to the buyers, people get pissed. That makes sense. If someone is selling hybrids, they should tell people that as many hobbyists buy stock thinking they are getting a pure bloodline. That I think is what people would find offensive about hybrids, not warning someone you are selling them some.

[danny]

May 25, 2009 12:15:39 GMT -5 jonv said:

Danny what I think is the term offensive may not be what you are trying to convey. I think what you are getting at is that in cichlid keeping, at least in terms of Africans, hybrids are often shunned in favor of keeping bloodlines pure. Now you take your Flowerhorn and even say OB Peacocks which are hybrids, it's accepted in it's place for the most part. I think what you'll find though is that if you start talking about hybriding a bloodline of say Labidochromis Caeruleus and crossing them with like Pseudotropheus Socoloffi or something like that, and then passing them out in the hobby without saying anything to the buyers, people get pissed. That makes sense. If someone is selling hybrids, they should tell people that as many hobbyists buy stock thinking they are getting a pure bloodline. That I think is what people would find offensive about hybrids, not warning someone you are selling them some.

i understand sir...i myself follows that ethics in the hobby.i will not and avoid creating any hybrid nor sell any.although i like flowerhorns,i have no intention to promote hybrids.my purpose is just to enjoy them and breed them(no intention of selling the fry.......for onw). ;D
but rest assured sir,i will follow your advice,if in time i sell them,i'll let everyone know that it is a hybrid.
speaking of hybrids,does anyone here reads "the fish hobbyist" magazine(printed or digital)?in their march issue,there was an article entitled "hybrids: malice,mistakes, or muddy waters" by david e. buroschowitz.the article is very good!i would love to share the link in their digital issue but i'm scared that tfh might sue me or something coz it's a subscriptional magazine(in fact,i am not subscribed in tfh either,a local friend hobbyist just shares me his code so that i can read them too.).

[Carl]

I will jump in here and add my opinion.

I had many Chinese Clients in So.California when I had my aquarium service company that kept Flowerhorns. I respected the value that they placed on these fish and they recognized that I respected their views, even when I might disagree (such as with the "bubble gum" cichlids that were injected).
I personally have not issue with the Flowerhorn in the context that my Chinese friends kept them. However with the injected fish I would refuse to sell these and since many of my Chinese clients new my respect for their views, they in turn respected my view here and would not push me to obtain these fish for them.

I think this comes down to a respect of others views on a subject that is subjective in my opinion.

I have always tried to understand these cultural differences, that often come from religious views as well. This has allowed me many good friendships that really showed themselves when I was invited to private weddings of these clients or the testimonial sent to me by the owner of the largest North American Furniture Importing Company when she was told by a mutual friend of my family's issues a few months back.

Sorry to get off track somewhat.

Carl

[jonv]

I think yes off track Carl, but it is related in a degree. I actually became aware of just how bad dying and "painting" fish are off YA, and that is a practice I really wish could be put to an end. In the last few months, I have started to come across more and more hormone induced/injected African Peacocks. This too is also off the target, and I am unsure if this process is as damaging to a fish as dying or painting. I do not like the hormone thing myself, as the object is to speed up the color display process, so a fish looks more colorful and will sell.

The pair of white peacocks I got from Vin, now he told me right off, listen, these two have been given hormones from who he bought from. Vin is always honest and forthcomming if he has something shall we say, of a questionable nature. He's extremely skilled at spotting hybrids, excellent in the genetic aspects, and highly intelligent in terms of Mbuna and how they are. I know he's gotten flamed in other forums as he's a typical NY'er like me, we just don't beat around the bush and get right to the point, straight forward, but he's very honest and very good when it comes to customer service. My point is that I listen to him simply because he knows what he's talking about, I couldn't care less how he says it, and he brought me into light of just how vast the hormone issue is.

So to keep on topic, Danny, I think hybrids are just one of many aspects in the fish hobby that might be worth your time to take some time to do reading up on. I have to say that I think, but I cannot say with certainty, that hyrbids among African cichilds, this is a very shunned practice in most cases. The only exception that comes to mind are the OB Peacocks off the top of my head, but of late, I am now seeing Firefish becomming very popular, which is an OB Peacock crossed with Metriclimea Estherea (Red Zebra). The only conclusion I can draw off this, if you can create a good enough looking fish, endure the blasting you get for hybriding, it's possible over time a hybrid among Africans could become accepted. I am not very much into it myself, but must confess I possess 1 male Firefish and a few OB Peacocks. I am therefore guilty of promoting it in the hobby as I bought some, I apologize. It's still not a practice I would condone if asked.

[danny]

May 26, 2009 10:11:01 GMT -5 Carl said:

I will jump in here and add my opinion.

I had many Chinese Clients in So.California when I had my aquarium service company that kept Flowerhorns. I respected the value that they placed on these fish and they recognized that I respected their views, even when I might disagree (such as with the "bubble gum" cichlids that were injected).
I personally have not issue with the Flowerhorn in the context that my Chinese friends kept them. However with the injected fish I would refuse to sell these and since many of my Chinese clients new my respect for their views, they in turn respected my view here and would not push me to obtain these fish for them.

I think this comes down to a respect of others views on a subject that is subjective in my opinion.

I have always tried to understand these cultural differences, that often come from religious views as well. This has allowed me many good friendships that really showed themselves when I was invited to private weddings of these clients or the testimonial sent to me by the owner of the largest North American Furniture Importing Company when she was told by a mutual friend of my family's issues a few months back.

Sorry to get off track somewhat.

Carl

i agree sir,respect would be a good trait...

[danny]

May 26, 2009 13:42:31 GMT -5 jonv said:

I think yes off track Carl, but it is related in a degree. I actually became aware of just how bad dying and "painting" fish are off YA, and that is a practice I really wish could be put to an end. In the last few months, I have started to come across more and more hormone induced/injected African Peacocks. This too is also off the target, and I am unsure if this process is as damaging to a fish as dying or painting. I do not like the hormone thing myself, as the object is to speed up the color display process, so a fish looks more colorful and will sell.

The pair of white peacocks I got from Vin, now he told me right off, listen, these two have been given hormones from who he bought from. Vin is always honest and forthcomming if he has something shall we say, of a questionable nature. He's extremely skilled at spotting hybrids, excellent in the genetic aspects, and highly intelligent in terms of Mbuna and how they are. I know he's gotten flamed in other forums as he's a typical NY'er like me, we just don't beat around the bush and get right to the point, straight forward, but he's very honest and very good when it comes to customer service. My point is that I listen to him simply because he knows what he's talking about, I couldn't care less how he says it, and he brought me into light of just how vast the hormone issue is.

So to keep on topic, Danny, I think hybrids are just one of many aspects in the fish hobby that might be worth your time to take some time to do reading up on. I have to say that I think, but I cannot say with certainty, that hyrbids among African cichilds, this is a very shunned practice in most cases. The only exception that comes to mind are the OB Peacocks off the top of my head, but of late, I am now seeing Firefish becomming very popular, which is an OB Peacock crossed with Metriclimea Estherea (Red Zebra). The only conclusion I can draw off this, if you can create a good enough looking fish, endure the blasting you get for hybriding, it's possible over time a hybrid among Africans could become accepted. I am not very much into it myself, but must confess I possess 1 male Firefish and a few OB Peacocks. I am therefore guilty of promoting it in the hobby as I bought some, I apologize. It's still not a practice I would condone if asked.

thank you sir.yes,i will read and understand more about hybrids.

[babygeige]

I read that article in TFH too! It was very interesting and brought a lot of good points on both sides.