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Post by apacheoem on Sept 19, 2008 14:18:50 GMT -5
Hey - Neophyte here with a first time posting. Please help! I tried to search, but came up short. My large Oscar has a white spot in the middle of his eye. It looks like a fluffy piece of cotton about half the size of a pencil eraser. His behavior is unchanged and he has no other signs of anything abnormal. History: About a month ago, we had a fish sitter that fed WAY too much, even after our warnings, and the water became slightly polluted. On our return, I doubled the routine water changes, then noticed some slime - white colored, mainly on the body, no other deterioration. This stuff was not like Velvet that I've seen on a different set of Oscars. Calvin's behavior has not changed. I treated with a fungus cure (can't recall the name) that turned the water florescent green. Then, per the instructions, after 48 hours I treated it a second time; waited 24 hours and did a single 25% water change. The white slime is gone, but almost immediately after this water change, he's got this patch on his eye. I've purchased some Maracyn 2, but would love some advice before I go throwing more chemicals in on my "boy." Many thanks for any help!!  |
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Post by Carl on Sept 19, 2008 14:39:03 GMT -5
It sounds like you developed either a Saprolegnia or Columnaris infection from the pollution (I would go with the Saprolegina diagnosis myself) First make sure your water parameters are good before adding medications as this can hinder treatment and treatment itself can make it worse. Here are a few paramters and what they should be: *Ammonia/nitrites- 0 *pH - Stable *KH - at least 50 ppm for pH stability *GH - at least 100 ppm for IMPORTANT minerals/electrolytes to ehlp with fish osmoregulation and fight the disease Be aware the Maracyn II, although an effective product for many aquatic infections, is affected by a parameter that should be up for a better cure, namely calcium (found in GH) Also eye infections are one of the few aquatic infections that are often gram positive as most aquatic infections are gram negative. Because of this a stronger cure may be Erythromycin (found in Maracyn), however Erythromycin can be VERY hard on your filter bed, so ammonia levels must be watched and the use of Prime or Amquel Plus is strongly suggested. I would recommend adding Potassium Permanganate directly to the eye (if you can find this product as it has been very hard to find since 2001) Otherwise Methylene Blue can be substituted for this an applied directly instead. Other in tank medications to consider are Kanamycin or Triple SulfaI would also recommend a tablespoon of aquarium salt for every 5 gallons if you have not already done so. Please look at this article as well for more about medications: Aquarium Medications; how they workGood luck with him and BTW, WELCOME TO EVERYTHING AQUATIC!Carl |
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 19, 2008 14:49:18 GMT -5
Carl - You are a Godsend! Thanks for the quick, knowledgeable response and for the nice welcome.
I checked out your "Aquarium Medications: How They Work" for a bit before posting. Do you have anything similar that would serve as a guide to measuring and understanding the KH and GH from above? Thanks!
I am also wondering how to go about applying the Potassium Permanganate" directly to his eye. Calvin's big boy - it'd be like picking up a small bass and I don't think that he'd listen to: "Hold still now this won't hurt a bit!"
You are much appreciated! - Rick
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Post by Carl on Sept 19, 2008 15:12:00 GMT -5
Carl - You are a Godsend! Thanks for the quick, knowledgeable response and for the nice welcome. I checked out your "Aquarium Medications: How They Work" for a bit before posting. Do you have anything similar that would serve as a guide to measuring and understanding the KH and GH from above? Thanks! I am also wondering how to go about applying the Potassium Permanganate" directly to his eye. Calvin's big boy - it'd be like picking up a small bass and I don't think that he'd listen to: "Hold still now this won't hurt a bit!" You are much appreciated! - Rick As for the GH/KH, this article should answer your questions: CALCIUM, ELECTROLYTES, AND MAGNESIUM IN AQUARIUMS; How to maintain a Proper KH, GH & PH, why calcium and electrolytes are importantAs for the Potassium Permanganate in the eye, you asked the million dollar question when it comes to problems like this entailing large fish, LOL The answer is not an easy one either and that is IF you can capture him without inflicting more injury than he already has, it is worth while, otherwise this part of treatment may have to passed on (which is unfortunate as eye infections are often best treated topically when there are not other symptoms present) One suggestion is to net him at night when the lights are out and have someone else apply the medication via a Q-tip or eye dropper. Even then adding some Stress Coat, Novaqua, or Start Right after finishing this would help with any loss of slime coat from him struggling. Carl |
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 19, 2008 15:29:04 GMT -5
Perfect!
Thanks again (and Calvin thanks you too) Carl! - Rick
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 22, 2008 9:27:38 GMT -5
Carl - Is there a way for me to upload a photo? I would love for you to see this whitish patch on our Oscar's eye - your expert commentary on what it might be could make the diagnosis more concise.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! - Rick
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Post by Carl on Sept 22, 2008 9:43:44 GMT -5
Carl - Is there a way for me to upload a photo? I would love for you to see this whitish patch on our Oscar's eye - your expert commentary on what it might be could make the diagnosis more concise. Thank you, thank you, thank you! - Rick This forum does not have the file upload feature, however is you can host your picture in photobucket or similar (Flicker, Picassa, etc.) you can then display it here using the [ img ] Picture URL [ /url ] (spaces are added in the tags in the example to disable them) Photobucket provides you with ready to past tags for forum boards such as this. Carl |
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 22, 2008 9:53:50 GMT -5
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Post by Carl on Sept 22, 2008 12:19:51 GMT -5
Ouch!!
He has a very bad case of eye fungus, of which the only truly effective treatment IS topical!!
For this you need to locate some Silver Nitrate (this is used for treatment of infant eye infections, so it can be found in some medical supply retail outlets)
This is extremely stong and literally "burns" the infection of the eye, so it must be followed by Potassium dichromate to stop the reaction.
Sorry I cannot give you an easier sollution, however there is no honest easy solution for this.
Carl
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 22, 2008 14:05:40 GMT -5
Wow. I was hoping that this would not go this way. But, knowing the root of the problem puts us closer to a resolve.
Do you sell these products Carl?
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Post by bikeguy33 on Sept 22, 2008 17:33:10 GMT -5
poor calvin.....the topical treatment will probably hurt you more than him tho. we have to do this often on the fish farm for our younger fish. breaks my heart....but they do heal.
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Post by Carl on Sept 22, 2008 18:46:49 GMT -5
Wow. I was hoping that this would not go this way. But, knowing the root of the problem puts us closer to a resolve. Do you sell these products Carl? Unfortunately Aquatronics which made this in an easy to use aquatics form went out of business. You might try medical supply or even photography supply as well I wish I had a better answer, but I do not (I wish Aquatronics never went out business, they were an awesome company from 1977 to 2002) Carl |
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 23, 2008 8:14:20 GMT -5
Carl - You have been extremely helpful in my quest to cure Calvin, the Oscar with the white eye spot. This site is remarkable and is much appreciated.
How can I pay you/donate to your site? I don't have a Google Account. Do you take PayPal?
Rick
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Post by Carl on Sept 23, 2008 9:45:57 GMT -5
Carl - You have been extremely helpful in my quest to cure Calvin, the Oscar with the white eye spot. This site is remarkable and is much appreciated. How can I pay you/donate to your site? I don't have a Google Account. Do you take PayPal? Rick Thank you very much for the kind words, makes everything seem worth it!  I only wish I had a source for the Silver Nitrate (I checked the internet, including eBay since this product has a long shelf life) You still might try direct application of Potassium Permanganate. We do have a PayPal Donate Button on the Home page of Everything Aquatic (which can also be reached from the top of every forum page); Thanks for considering this : Everything Aquatic; Home PageCarl |
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 23, 2008 12:51:50 GMT -5
Done - Thanks again Carl!
Richard (Rick) L.
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 25, 2008 14:07:22 GMT -5
My main man Carl!! I thought I'd give a positive update on Calvin's condition. It looks like we'll have NO FUNERALS for my young daughters to attend thanks to you!! The Story: Per your suggestion, I was trying to source some Silver Nitrate/Potassium Permanganate from my Gynecologist friend (they used to use Silver Nitrate to prevent eye infection in babies, so, he was an excellent candidate to help me out). But, it was taking more time than I thought I could invest. So . . . You had mentioned early on that Erythromycin could be an effective antidote. In the interim, until I could get Silver Nitrate, I had to do something, ANYTHING, because the Maracyn was completely ineffective against this apparent bacterial infection. So, I took your advice and used a straight Erythromycin treatment. I've had it in for only two treatments and already Calvin's issue is nearly completely dissipated!! Thank you, thank you!! I also bought a sophisticated kit to keep a more strategic eye on my water quality, especially ammonia! Thanks again to you and to the others (BikeGuy33) that make this such a special place in the virtual world. Please keep up the great work on this site!! And to the users that have enjoyed this site: I encourage you to donate some of your coffee dollars to Carl's great cause. Its easy to give and it makes you feel good! (donate at the bottom of the right side - JUST DO IT!) www.everything-aquatic.com |
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Post by murdock6701 on Sept 25, 2008 19:14:01 GMT -5
I know I have not contributed any info to your problem because in that field I am also learning, but your positive response of appreciation is to be complimented and recognized! am really glad you're here! real people! what you learned todat helps all of us! thanks - John
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Post by apacheoem on Sept 26, 2008 14:42:30 GMT -5
Thanks John - You have a good family here!
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Post by murdock6701 on Sept 26, 2008 16:25:19 GMT -5
yeh, WE like to think so and you're part of "WE"
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Post by Carl on Sept 26, 2008 19:36:50 GMT -5
This is awesome news, especially when I look at the picture of how bad his eye was.
Thanks for the update and feedback! ;D
Carl
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