Lithobate not eating

[brenda]

My male lithobate has not been eating…This is the only symptom of anything he has which pretty much is a symptom of every disease and what not there is. His breathing and swimming seem fine. My question is…Do you think it would hurt anything if I were to drop a medicated wondershell in the tank, just to see if it helped any?

[murdock6701]

by not eating, do you mean, no pellets, no flake, no brine shrimp?
is he being harassed?

[bikeguy33]

until he starts showing specific signs of anything i wouldnt be too concerned....try a different food....maybe he`s just bored. anyways....not only would a wonder shell not do any harm...i feel it will help.

[jonv]

Could be what Bill is saying, it could be a pathogen like you said, it could even well be just feeling full maybe. There are times when the Jardini will eat actively and alot and then there are times, I try to feed about the same time, he's got little to no interest in food. Never really can tell. The good thing is usually in most cases, you put the food in, if they eat it great, if not, someone else will get it so the mess on the bottom shouldn't be a problem. Just start watching for anything else going wrong. I'd suspect that if something is wrong, the next thing you're liable to see is the fish staying off and away from everyone knowing he's getting weaker and can't cope with the stress.

[murdock6701]

sorry Brenda, didn't mean to be so short - I'm at work and had a call come in - I'm not a pro at cichlids by any means. but in any case I like to start at ground level in questions - who and how many is he in with? how long has this been going on? - is he normally social and now retreating off by himself? hopefully these questions will enlighten the pros on site to help you out

[brenda]

I have not noticed him being harassed. He still is out and about but does tend to hang more by himself then he used to. He is with sunshine peacock, calvus, and my vics. He doesn’t cruise the way he used to and he used to eat like a pig. I would say it has been 4-5 days and I feed a variety of foods. I think I will throw the medicated shell in there just to see. I just didn’t know if it would harm my beneficial bacteria.

[murdock6701]

I wouldn't think so.....maybe alter your parameter readings a bit - do you have tank you could isloate him in for a couple of days to keep an eye on him, or would that disrupt social acceptance when he was reintroduced?

[Carl]

A Medicated Wonder Shell is not likely to harm your established filter bed. The Medicated Wonder Shell may help some, however this can often be a difficult problem to both diagnose and treat.

Since this fish is not being harassed and used to eat well, you unfortunately have good reason to be concerned.

Internal parasites and intestinal bacterium can be the cause (sometime flagellates can live inside a fish intestines for a long time before the first symptoms appear.

I would also recommend a medicated bath with Methylene Blue and a double dose of Metrondizole

Soaking some frozen Brine Shrimp (or even live B. Shrimp or worms) in Omega 3 Oil (human is fine) along with Metronidazole would also make food more palatable and add more meds internally.
See this article about poor appetite:
FISH NUTRITION; Poor Appetite, malnutrition section (near the bottom of the article)

Carl

[goldenpuon]

I agree. It could be some kind of internal parasite. Or if not that, maybe a symtom of another disease that you have not noticed yet. Maybe try offering him his favorite food to see if that'll start up his appetite again.

Also, what are your parameters?

[brenda]

Well, I lost one of my little fires yesterday...It is harder to moniter them as there were 8 and they are all just silver. I am worried I have something going on in there...I am not used to losing fish. Everyone else so far seems normal. I also tested my water the otherday when I noticed it, and all was perfect as I suspected. I have fed frozen foods which any fish will gobble up and he doesn't seem to touch them. What is weird is he does hang a little more by himself at times but still hangs with the others...He appears ok in all other aspects but won't stay that way if he doesn't eat. I may try soaking the food in Metronidazole. I have the powder I got from you Carl...By the way nice to see you.

[brenda]

Well, the lithobate seems much more normal, begging for food like he used too. I am not sure if it was the wonder shell along with feeding the food soaked with metronidazole or if he was being harrassed. My sunshine had been in breeding mode and maybe he was being harrassed. I never saw anything and I know pretty well what is going on in my tank but I am not there when tthe lights go out. My sunshine is now out of breeding mode..That could be coincidence or not?? Even though I will say I have had fish I knew were harrassed they still ate, so I do find that weird. I am just glad he seems to be doing better.

[eve]

that's great

it's not that uncommon actually
i saw that especially in the africans i kept
if one was harassed, it would always hang out in the corner, and not eat at all

[brenda]

Ok, a little update here...This is crazy. My lithobate now has a perfectly round hole about a 1/4" behind his gill. I would say only some sort of parasite could do such a thing. He is back to eating. Do you think that with the medicated wondershell and the food soaked in the Metronidazole that the meds did their job and now the parasite is looking for an exit?

[Carl]

Mar 3, 2009 23:15:45 GMT -5 brenda said:

Ok, a little update here...This is crazy. My lithobate now has a perfectly round hole about a 1/4" behind his gill. I would say only some sort of parasite could do such a thing. He is back to eating. Do you think that with the medicated wondershell and the food soaked in the Metronidazole that the meds did their job and now the parasite is looking for an exit?

That is possible, but you would only know for sure if you ask the parasite

All kidding aside, Metronodizole fed internally is effective for many parasites, especially flagellates, but quite as strong against nemtodes (worms) which are more like to "bore" a hole through a fish' epidermis. Often Levamisol or Piperazine are more effective for Nematodes, but the combination of the Metronidazole fed internally along with the Medicated Wonder Shell may be effective as well.

Carl

[brenda]

I am going to do another round of the medicated food. He actually seems better then he was when I first posted this as he is eating which I thought was a good sign. I also put some melafix in the tank to try and help because it is an open wound. It is not tiny either. Have you seen the pins (like used for sewing and when making patterns) that have the round ball at the end...It is about that size.

Oh, I'll have to see if I can find him and ask the little bugger.

[kagome]

Where is the hole exactly. I know that you said behind his gill but is it in the jaw region? Abscesses can form and burst and it makes a very circular hole as well.

[brenda]

No, it is the other direction...on his body.

[brenda]

Here is a picture of him, it is not clear but the hole is OBVIOUS.

[Carl]

This could be either a bacterial or nematode (parasite) rupture.

On a positive note, there seems to be no inflammation or serious infection (at least for now). Also he looks good as to color, how he holds his fins and shows signs that an otherwise healthy fish displays.

As others noted, Melafix may be a good precautionary treatment . Triple Sulfa is also excellent for this (or even stronger than Melfix).
I would also topically apply Methylene Blue using a Q-Tip or dropper directly to this wound at least for 2-3 days.

Carl

[brenda]

Yeah, he seems to be doing well...Was even chasing his girl earlier...I put melafix in last night to try and help treat the open wound. I will try the methylene blue...I guess even with the hole in his side he is back to eating which I know is half the battle.