Matrix and De*Nitrate together, good idea?

[captain1201]

We have very hard public water, and I have this theory, among other things, that high silicates might be causing a problem with brown algae blooms (diatoms) when I top off, and/or when I do water changes.  Actually, the brown diatoms have been a problem for quite a while, even after doing regular water changes, cleaning the tank, etc...They just wouldn't go away, when they should have gone away if there was a decent bio filter established.

So, I very recently changed over to running two Aquaclear filters, an Aquaclear 50 and an Aquaclear 30, both of which I already have. I switched over to running those two filters from running just one Marineland Penquin filter on the tank, which only uses the bio wheel to establish a bio filter in the tank. 

I'm not sure whether the brown algae is due to the shortcomings of the Penguin with respect to possibly having an inadequate bio filter, or if it's the silicates in my tap water, or if a combination of both conditions were causing the brown algae issues.  But, upon several weeks of reflection, I've started to theorize that the majority of the diatom problem might be on account of the lack of a decent bio filter from the Penguin filter, and that maybe if I just clean things completely up, and switch filters, perhaps the entire issue would go away without all the rest of what I've been considering as an overall comprehensive strategy.

So, I completely cleaned every aspect of the tank and synthetic gravel, and that was only about three weeks ago. So, the bio filter is barely established yet. My readings now are all still at zero, Ammonia zero, Nitrite (.012-.015 actually), Nitrates at zero, Phosphates at Zero, etc...

My comprehensive plan was to experiment with combining Seachem De*Nitrate and Matrix, each in their own respective box filters running simultaneously in the tank, but I needed to slow the flow rate down on an Aquaclear 30 box filter so I could use Seachem De*Nitrate in that filter.

De*Nitrate requires a flow rate of less than 50 GPH in order to nourish the anaerobic bacteria. Seachem advises that anything higher than 50 GPH will starve the bacteria of nutrients, and the anaerobic bacteria will die.

Seachem recommends a canister filter for De*Nitrate to reduce the oxygen levels so that the anaerobic bacteria can colonize and flourish within the De*Nitrate media.  But, I can't seem to find a canister filter anywhere that has less than a 50 GPH flow rate. Most canister filters process at much higher rates. I looked at the Eheim Classic 2211, but it processes at a rate higher than 50 GPH as well.

I do really have a lot of respect for Seachem, but why do they develop a product, then recommend that it should be used in a canister filter that doesn't exist (ie: less than a 50GPH flow rate).

So, I've decided to use the Aquaclear 30 box filter, which I already have, and to slow down the flow rate somehow in order to create the proper environment for the De*Nitrate to function properly (ie: less than 50GPH flow rate).

To do this, I am considering a sponge filter on the intake of the Aquaclear 30 to slow down the flow rate, which I figure will also provide the bio-filtering benefits of the sponge filter as well, and I'll probably have to also block up the media chamber a bit to slow the flow rate down.

Can anyone advise which of the sponge filters out there would be a good option, one that will adapt to the Aquaclear 30 that would assist in slowing the flow rate down, while still allowing some water to pass through the filter, all be it at a rate that will achieve less than a flow rate of 50 GPH? Or, if you have a different set of ideas for slowing down the flow rate on the box filter, I'm open to that too.

As I mentioned, I am also simultaneously running an Aquaclear 50 box filter on this same tank, which has Seachem Matrix media in it (no carbon), which Seachem says is primarily good for cultivating aerobic bacteria, although they imply that Matrix will supposedly also cultivate anaerobic bacteria, but only under perfect conditions, less than 50 GPH apparently(?)  That's why I'm thinking that even with Matrix, if you want anaerobic bacteria, which are very beneficial in a bacterial filter, you still have to slow down the flow in order to cultivate it.  I get the distinct impression from Seachem that de*Nitrate is superior for cultivating anaerobic bacteria, so that's why I'm still considering a way to run it in the Aquaclear 30, and slowing down the flow rate somehow. 

I do not intend to run a sponge filter on the Aquaclear 50, which will provide sufficient flow so that slowing down the Aquaclear 30 won't effect the overall exchange of water in the tank, so that I'll still have adequate mechanical filtration even with the Aquaclear 30 slowed down. My intention is to clean the sponge filter on the Aquaclear 30 every couple of weeks to keep it open, so it won't turn into a Nitrate factory.

If you think that running De*Nitrate in the Aquaclear 30 would likely be unproductive, since I am already running Matrix in the Aquaclear 50 filter, should I still run a sponge filter to slow down the Aquaclear 30, and see how things go using just the one bag of De*Nitrate, which I already have?  I figure I might as well use it somewhere rather than waste it. I had intended to fill the chamber of the Aquaclear 30 completely with De*Nitrate, but if that would just be redundant, since the Matrix is in place in the Aquaclear 50, it might just be altogether totally unnecessary. What do you think knowing that Seachem implies that De*Nitrate is best between the two for cultivating anaerobic bacteria?

If you think that Matrix is sufficient for both types of bacteria, and I just run the one bag of De*Nitrate that I already have, just so I don't waste it, rather than buying more De*Nitrate to fill up the chamber in the Aquaclear 30, then that would free up some room in the chamber of the Aquaclear 30 for other media.

I already have a supply of Phosguard, which I could use in the open chamber for a few days after top-offs, to keep the silica levels in check, then maybe use some Purigen at times, alternating Phosguard when I need it, and Purigen to reduce ammonia, nitrite, or nitrates if they get high. Do you recommend Phosguard in there for times when I top-off the tank? What about Purigen?

But, I worry that too much chemical filtration will starve the bacteria colonies that I'm trying to establish right now. So, I'm holding off for a while on chemical filtration, such as bags of Phosguard and Purigen, at least until I know I have a thriving bacterial colony of both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria, which could take a couple more months.

The tank is a 29 Gallon Cube. I have (5) Cory Cats and (6) Glow Fish in the tank. I've just finished dosing of Seachem's Stability (7 days), and just did a 30% water change this morning.

Everything looks great right now, but it's too soon to know whether I'm on the right track with respect to these changes, or whether I'm going overboard with the idea of using both De*Nitrate and Matrix, not to mention whether it would be wise to eventually incorporate other chemical treatments like Phosguard and Purigen.

[childofiam]

The use of Seachem De*Nitrate in your case is a wast of money, it's more valuable in a drip box than in a hob or canister box where the O2 level will be consistent with your aquarium.
Matrix is the best Bio media for a fresh water aquarium. Nitrates are best controlled through H2O changes. If you have plants then you want to keep about 20 ppm for the plants and non planted tanks below that. Nitrates are not harmful to fish at these kind of low levels. Your Cory cats will start to bounce off the top of the water column when nitrates start to get too high above 30 ppm or Ammonia levels over .25
As far as silicates in your tap water there is a Silicate test kit available through AAP's online store, www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquariumtestkit.html#silicate Don't guess at what is in your water or you will be chasing ghost in your water. The only way to know is to test...

Brown algae can be a problem in a tank when it is new, "under 6 months". I say this because it can take this long to find the balance. You test levels are good so I would say it is a light problem. Too much light or to long of a period of time your lights are on can be the balance you need. I recently made a move of my lights by lowering them too low to the tank as my lights are suspended from the ceiling and with winter coming on I put the glass lids on to help with temperature control of 85 degrees for my Discus. Condensation builds up on the glass hoods so it reduces the amount of light getting to the bottom of my 75 gallon tank. This is why I lowered the lights but when the brown algae began to develop I raised the lights about 1/2 inch per week until the algae began to disappear, I am fine tuning now with smaller adjustment as I still have very small spots around the edge of the sand.

One thing I would highly recommend is a "stage one Stage two" UV sterilizer. The majority of UV sterilizers on the market like what is fount on amazon or Local Pet Stores just clarify. A true UV sterilizer like the Vecton 2: V2 200 8 Watt, you can read about them here, www.americanaquariumproducts.com/TMCUVSterilizer.html will make a huge difference in water quality. Every month I replenish my bio field with Seachem Stability and I have to turn off my Vectron 2 for 48 hours so it wont kill the bacteria I just added. Cheaper UV wont do this because they have very little sterilizing ability.

I would also recommend the Hydro Sponge Filter you can find here, www.americanaquariumproducts.com/SpongeFilter.html
for your HOB filters.

The simplicity of a fluidized sand filters Model #600 combined with a Hydro Sponge Filter found here, www.americanaquariumproducts.com/FluidizedSandFilter.html will out preform any canister filter on the market. I have them on both of my 75's and never have any problems with Ammonia or Nitrites.

It sounds like I am trying to sell you something but I'm not. I wasted a lot of money on lights and filters in the past but when I tried the time tested TMC line of products I found high quality products that actually do what they claim to do.

It really does look like your on the right track. The Nitrogen cycle is a cycle, fish constantly add ammonia so you will see zero levels at times and you will see levels like .25 buy don't worry unless you see .5 or higher. Add Stability every month to maintain your bio filter. Only clean one of you HOB at one time then wait a week to clean the other so you always have a bio field stable.

Richard

[captain1201]

I have things arranged so that water changes are really pretty easy, only taking about 20 minutes to do a 30% water change.  But, while water changes are relatively easy, and not time consuming per se, I'm interested in making things as easy, and as less time consuming, as possible.

In my case, with the brown algae (diatoms) being so prolific in the tank, I see this as a three front war actually, Nitrogen Cycle, Silicates, and Phosphate levels. I theorize that silicates and phosphates may be just as responsible for my brown algae (diatom) issue. The brown algae isn't due to a new tank kind of thing, but something that's aggravated me for years, and that's why I think it relates back to top offs and water changes from tap water (ie: primarily silicates in hard tap water).

Brown Diatoms love Silicates!  They seem to flourish every time I do a water change or top-off the tank, and silicates and phosphates accumulate every time I add tap water to the tank. Diatoms (Brown Algae) also like phosphates (which is tap water related), and they like Nitrates too. That's why I've been experimenting with Purigen and Phosguard, and why I want to improve the Nitrogen Cycle with respect to seeing the Nitrates processed to the greatest extent possible, as automatically and naturally as possible, through the proliferation of anaerobic bacteria...My goal is to comprehensively reduce nitrates, silicates, and phosphates in the tank through various natural and mechanical means, in order to reduce the environment for brown diatoms to flourish.

I've been running a Deep Blue UV Sterilizer for the entire time that the brown diatoms have been a problem. I do like having a UV sterilizer to reduce the potential for parasites in the water. But, brown diatoms aren't parasites, so I don't really expect the UV Sterilizer to help me much with brown diatoms, and actual algae has never been a problem.

I've had planted tanks in the past, and right now I feel that they will complicate my solving the brown algae issue because I would have to simultaneously worry about properly nourishing them, due to having to dose nutrients and deliver proper lighting. So, for now, I've omitted plants so I can focus on the brown algae without having to simultaneously properly nourish the plants.  I just don't want to have the balancing act of making sure I am not also nourishing the brown algae (diatoms) in order to have the plants flourishing.

So, in light of my having a theory that the bio-wheel on the previous Marineland Penquin filter, which I had been using for at least three years, didn't ever establish an adequate bio-filter in the tank, I've decided to change out the filter by going to the Aquaclear filters, which I already have in my stash, and to add Matrix to the Aquaclear 50 chamber, which is intended to focus on cultivating aerobic bacteria.  

Simultaneously, I am experimenting with De*Nitrate in the smaller Aquaclear 30 filter chamber, in an effort to establish a better functioning bio-filter by trying to cultivate anaerobic bacteria there. The challenge is slowing down the flow rate in the Aquaclear 30 so that the anaerobic bacteria can cultivate in a box filter, not an easy task, but doable I think if I can slow down the flow.

Once the new bio-filter is established, and my test kit confirms that the cycle is mature, I plan to use a Phosguard type of product to remove silicates and phosphates when I do water changes and top-offs. I haven't decided yet whether, once the nitrogen cycle is established, to use Purigen to remove ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. That might be the time to introduce some live plants instead, but only after I'm convinced I have the diatoms (brown algae) under control.  

I agree with your strategy of dosing Stability about once a month, just to keep the bacteria where they need to be. So, making sure I am not running the UV Sterilizer while dosing Stability, and my regulating the dosing of Purigen, if at all, has to be something I pay close attention to so I don't starve out the very bacteria I am trying to cultivate.

I am going to try a bio-sponge in one of the Aquaclear filters, probably the Aquaclear 30, where the De*Nitrate is also being housed right now, thinking that it may also serve to slow down the flow rate in that filter to accommodate the De*Nitrate flow requirements, which is less than 50 GPH. I've heard good things about using a bio-sponge to establish anaerobic bacteria...it serves as just another weapon in the arsenal needed to establish the anaerobic bacteria I need to convert Nitrates in the tank.

[devonjohnsgard]

Agree I think you need more bacterial filtration. It's not typical to have 0 Nitrates as well, so I wonder if you have a cycle at all, let alone a strong cycle.

I agree the first place I would start is the light. The light controls all. Case in point, there will be planted tanks with here Silicates and Phosphate levels, but still no algae, because of the Co2 and light balance. I would reduce light, which is feeding on the excess nutrient that plants are not using. Once the plants start thriving, they will outgrow algae and bacteria blooms.

Pretty sure the Deep Blue sterilizer only provides clarification, but true sterilization. Due to using a bulb with only 7% UVC output instead of 35% and the dwell time. I would still make sure you have a newer bulb to help with clarification. Sterilization is best for fish health.

I think sponges will work wonders, with the Matrix. I would use Stability to help them cycle faster.

[Carl]

Both Richard & Devon made some good points/suggestions.

This is a good point:

The use of Seachem De*Nitrate in your case is a wast of money, it's more valuable in a drip box

Devon also made some good points about lighting and UV Sterilization.
Using a 6500K light(or changing the lamp if it is a fluorescent light that is more than a year old) is important

As for the Deep Blue UV Sterilizers, this are AT BEST a UV clarifier, certainly not level one or level 2 Sterilization.
In part due to improper flow & dwell time along with no real pre-filtration

I suggest reading this article:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html

I would also recommend following as many points as outlined in this article as possible for Brown Algae control:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/04/aquarium-algae.html#brown

Carl

[captain1201]

Thanks everyone for your advice, and your knowledge...This isn't meant to dispute anything that has been recommended, just some additional observations about where I'm coming from.

I'm considering possibly replacing the De*Nitrate that's currently in the Aquaclear 30 filter chamber with Pond Matrix, which according to Seachem is superior for cultivating anaerobic bacteria in an environment where there is a higher flow rate than 50 GPH.  

There seems to be such skepticism that the De*Nitrate media is inherently good for cultivating either bacteria that I'm having second thoughts about wasting time with it. I just figured I would try it since I already had a bag of it, and I wouldn't be out anything using it...hoping to get lucky I guess.

The individual pieces of Pond Matrix are about twice the size of Matrix, but I calculate only needing about 300mL in the filter chamber for a 30 gallon tank, so I don't anticipate their being insufficient space for the Pond Matrix media to fit.  Remember, I am not abandoning regular Matrix, it's in the Aquaclear 50 filter.  

But, I have considered experimenting with Pond Matrix, or De*Nitrate to begin with, because I'm under the impression that regular Matrix is intended to cultivate Aerobic bacteria, which is great, but my focus is to cultivate Anaerobic bacteria.  Am I mistaken about Matrix, that it's designed to mostly cultivate aerobic bacteria and not anaerobic bacteria?

Seachem claims to have developed Pond Matrix to have a superior pore system for the cultivation of anaerobic bacteria, and Pond Matrix can be used where there is greater than a 50GPH flow rate.  Anybody played with Pond Matrix in a standard aquarium, or do you see any obvious detractors to Pond Matrix that I might be missing?

[captain1201]

Dec 12, 2016 13:01:51 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

...Deep Blue sterilizer only provides clarification

I have the Deep Blue Clarity+ UV Sterilizer, and they claim the following:

"Internal Sterilization Chamber is lined with an integrated light amplifying reflector increasing both ultraviolet output & concentration. Water is drawn first through a perforated strainer located on the side of the unit before entering into the sterilization chamber, preventing damage to both lamp and internal components.  A twin pass routing system further increases performance and dwell time. At the heart of the system is an epoxy sealed high performance compact fluorescent UV lamp cartridge (typical life 9,000 hours).  A waterproof epoxy seal protects lamp socket and electrical connections allowing lamp cartridge to fully be submerged unlike conventional sterilizers, which use transmission restrictive glass sleeves.  The result is a potent dose of ultraviolet light achieved through direct unfiltered water-tube contact, maximizing sterilization," including a "specifically tuned circulation pump optimized for perfect balance between ultraviolet exposure (dwell time) & flow control, ensuring effective sterilization." 

Now, I have no way of knowing whether their claims are accurate, no way to measure it, etc...other than to experience results from having used it.  My experience with the Deep Blue UV Sterilizer has been very good, as I have had no algae in the tank, no ich, etc...I selected it so I would not have to plumb it to the outside of the tank, it was stealth in size, and it could be completely submerged in the tank.  I know the cost of the Deep Blue was not cheap, and the relatively high price was on par with other brands that also claim to be legitimate UV Sterilizers.  It seems like they're very directly claiming that their product is most definitely a UV Sterilizer, and that they understand what distinguishes their product from one that merely improves water clarity.

It sounds pretty good to me if it's all true. But, I am past due with changing the bulb.  The suction cups are starting to fail on the back of the unit after only three years of use, so I'm not sure I'm going to keep using it unless I can mount it some other way inside the tank.  

[captain1201]

Dec 12, 2016 13:01:51 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

I have the Current Orbit Marine LED aquarium light, which has a ramp timer with an LED controller with wireless IR (infrared) remote, providing two independent light channels to program, blue and white LEDs.  I have the model #4100, 18 Watts, 36 Dual Daylight/36 Dual Actinic LEDs, 72 LEDs Total. It has Dual Daylight and Dual Actinic multi-chip LEDs. It has a combination of 8,000K/12,000K white LEDs, along with 445nm/460nm actinic blue LEDs.  

So, it's actually meant for a marine tank, but I'm using it on my fresh water tank.  I've adjusted the light intensity down to about 45% since it's not being used on a marine tank.  I've played with it quite a bit, adjusting it down, thinking that the light intended for a marine tank might be dosing too much light on full intensity in a fresh water tank.

But, after all the experimentation I've done with this light, after also thinking that by dosing a marine light in a fresh water tank that my lighting was possibly the culprit responsible for the brown algae, I've concluded that it hasn't been.

I don't have any plants in the tank, so no need to worry about nourishing plants.  I am strictly interested in just the visual appearance of the tank right now.  I could probably adjust this light down to 20% intensity, and be perfectly happy with the visual appearance.  

I am currently running it only about 5 hours a day these days, and the tank gets only ambient light during the daylight hours, and no direct sunlight from the windows during the day.  I usually run the light from 6pm-11pm at night, so I can enjoy the fish while I also watch TV.  So, the rest of the day the light is off, and the tank just gets ambient room light from the windows.

Maybe I'm wrong, and these marine LED "K" ranges are causing the problem, but I doubt it at their intensity, 45%, and for only five hours a day.  But, if you think I should, I can turn it down even further, say 20% intensity, and I wouldn't really notice any visual difference.  

[devonjohnsgard]

Dec 12, 2016 15:29:05 GMT -5 captain1201 said:

Dec 12, 2016 13:01:51 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

...Deep Blue sterilizer only provides clarification

I have the Deep Blue Clarity+ UV Sterilizer, and they claim the following:

"Internal Sterilization Chamber is lined with an integrated light amplifying reflector increasing both ultraviolet output & concentration. Water is drawn first through a perforated strainer located on the side of the unit before entering into the sterilization chamber, preventing damage to both lamp and internal components.  A twin pass routing system further increases performance and dwell time. At the heart of the system is an epoxy sealed high performance compact fluorescent UV lamp cartridge (typical life 9,000 hours).  A waterproof epoxy seal protects lamp socket and electrical connections allowing lamp cartridge to fully be submerged unlike conventional sterilizers, which use transmission restrictive glass sleeves.  The result is a potent dose of ultraviolet light achieved through direct unfiltered water-tube contact, maximizing sterilization," including a "specifically tuned circulation pump optimized for perfect balance between ultraviolet exposure (dwell time) & flow control, ensuring effective sterilization." 

Now, I have no way of knowing whether their claims are accurate, no way to measure it, etc...other than to experience results from having used it.  My experience with the Deep Blue UV Sterilizer has been very good, as I have had no algae in the tank, no ich, etc...I selected it so I would not have to plumb it to the outside of the tank, it was stealth in size, and it could be completely submerged in the tank.  I know the cost of the Deep Blue was not cheap, and the relatively high price was on par with other brands that also claim to be legitimate UV Sterilizers.  It seems like they're very directly claiming that their product is most definitely a UV Sterilizer, and that they understand what distinguishes their product from one that merely improves water clarity.

It sounds pretty good to me if it's all true. But, I am past due with changing the bulb.  The suction cups are starting to fail on the back of the unit after only three years of use, so I'm not sure I'm going to keep using it unless I can mount it some other way inside the tank.  

Any UV light can be marketed as a sterilizer, because technically, with the right volume of water and flow, you would have sterilization instead of clarification. Last time I looked at that sterilizer for the size they rated it on the box, it did not provide sterilization. This takes in account the length of the bulb, the flow, volume of water, and the gap in the camber the water flows by the bulb. Plus the type of lamp, which when I check was a Medium Pressure instead of Low Pressure. 7% vs 35% output. Then considering the bulb isn't new...

Here's how to figure out:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html#flowtable

[devonjohnsgard]

Dec 12, 2016 16:26:04 GMT -5 captain1201 said:

Dec 12, 2016 13:01:51 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

I have the Current Orbit Marine LED aquarium light, which has a ramp timer with an LED controller with wireless IR (infrared) remote, providing two independent light channels to program, blue and white LEDs.  I have the model #4100, 18 Watts, 36 Dual Daylight/36 Dual Actinic LEDs, 72 LEDs Total. It has Dual Daylight and Dual Actinic multi-chip LEDs. It has a combination of 8,000K/12,000K white LEDs, along with 445nm/460nm actinic blue LEDs.  

So, it's actually meant for a marine tank, but I'm using it on my fresh water tank.  I've adjusted the light intensity down to about 45% since it's not being used on a marine tank.  I've played with it quite a bit, adjusting it down, thinking that the light intended for a marine tank might be dosing too much light on full intensity in a fresh water tank.

But, after all the experimentation I've done with this light, after also thinking that by dosing a marine light in a fresh water tank that my lighting was possibly the culprit responsible for the brown algae, I've concluded that it hasn't been.

I don't have any plants in the tank, so no need to worry about nourishing plants.  I am strictly interested in just the visual appearance of the tank right now.  I could probably adjust this light down to 20% intensity, and be perfectly happy with the visual appearance.  

I am currently running it only about 5 hours a day these days, and the tank gets only ambient light during the daylight hours, and no direct sunlight from the windows during the day.  I usually run the light from 6pm-11pm at night, so I can enjoy the fish while I also watch TV.  So, the rest of the day the light is off, and the tank just gets ambient room light from the windows.

Maybe I'm wrong, and these marine LED "K" ranges are causing the problem, but I doubt it at their intensity, 45%, and for only five hours a day.  But, if you think I should, I can turn it down even further, say 20% intensity, and I wouldn't really notice any visual difference.  

These marine lights have more blue light, which is most intense than white light. So, I'd say it's feeding the problem, since nothing else is "using" the light, the algae will. 5 hours is a good amount of light. I was going to recommend 6 hours with regular white light. I would adjust intensity more and if that doesn't work, use a silicate/phosphate remover.

[Carl]

captain1201;
I am familiar with the Deep Blue UV Sterilizer (really clarifier), they are but a retread design with nice marketing, but nothing new

Here are some key points addressing what you pasted:
A perforated strainer is not pre-filtration

Dwell time needs to be clocked and also takes into consideration the space between the lamp and inside walls

All these units are epoxy sealed, nothing new here, as this would be needed just for safety for an internal UV

HO UV lamps only have a useful life of about 4500 hours, so this is a red flag this is a low output medium pressure lamp

I would read these articles:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/UVSterilizerDwellTime.html
www.uvsterilizerreview.com/2009/12/uv-sterilizer-problems-equipment.html

Keep in mind that Deep Blue is not a manufacturer, they just place their name on other products and in some cases, products that violate patent laws (the ATI Sponge filter for one)

In the end, this is most definitely a UV Clarifier, which means it is still useful for this, just do not let good marketing fool you

The spectrum on this light is not best for a freshwater aquarium, too much blue as Devon noted

The SeaChem Pond Matrix is designed for MUCH higher flow rates than a small AquaClear Filter would ever produce. Beside pond use, I have only used this in high flow sumps
You might consider Volcanic Rock as a less expensive alternative.

Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Volcanicrock.html

Further Reading about filter media:
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/05/aquarium-filter-media.html

Carl

[captain1201]

Dec 12, 2016 17:25:33 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Dec 12, 2016 16:26:04 GMT -5 captain1201 said:

I have the Current Orbit Marine LED aquarium light, which has a ramp timer with an LED controller with wireless IR (infrared) remote, providing two independent light channels to program, blue and white LEDs.  I have the model #4100, 18 Watts, 36 Dual Daylight/36 Dual Actinic LEDs, 72 LEDs Total. It has Dual Daylight and Dual Actinic multi-chip LEDs. It has a combination of 8,000K/12,000K white LEDs, along with 445nm/460nm actinic blue LEDs.  

So, it's actually meant for a marine tank, but I'm using it on my fresh water tank.  I've adjusted the light intensity down to about 45% since it's not being used on a marine tank.  I've played with it quite a bit, adjusting it down, thinking that the light intended for a marine tank might be dosing too much light on full intensity in a fresh water tank.

But, after all the experimentation I've done with this light, after also thinking that by dosing a marine light in a fresh water tank that my lighting was possibly the culprit responsible for the brown algae, I've concluded that it hasn't been.

I don't have any plants in the tank, so no need to worry about nourishing plants.  I am strictly interested in just the visual appearance of the tank right now.  I could probably adjust this light down to 20% intensity, and be perfectly happy with the visual appearance.  

I am currently running it only about 5 hours a day these days, and the tank gets only ambient light during the daylight hours, and no direct sunlight from the windows during the day.  I usually run the light from 6pm-11pm at night, so I can enjoy the fish while I also watch TV.  So, the rest of the day the light is off, and the tank just gets ambient room light from the windows.

Maybe I'm wrong, and these marine LED "K" ranges are causing the problem, but I doubt it at their intensity, 45%, and for only five hours a day.  But, if you think I should, I can turn it down even further, say 20% intensity, and I wouldn't really notice any visual difference.  

These marine lights have more blue light, which is most intense than white light. So, I'd say it's feeding the problem, since nothing else is "using" the light, the algae will. 5 hours is a good amount of light. I was going to recommend 6 hours with regular white light. I would adjust intensity more and if that doesn't work, use a silicate/phosphate remover.

You mean adjust the intensity of the light "down" more, right?  I can actually turn down whites and blues all the way down to zero if need be, but with respect to the whites, I can't independently reduce "K" ratings within the white LEDs, which is capable of delivering 8000K/12,000K.  I guess I'll dial everything down a bit more, and see how that works.  

[captain1201]

Dec 12, 2016 17:20:54 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

Dec 12, 2016 15:29:05 GMT -5 captain1201 said:

I have the Deep Blue Clarity+ UV Sterilizer, and they claim the following:

"Internal Sterilization Chamber is lined with an integrated light amplifying reflector increasing both ultraviolet output & concentration. Water is drawn first through a perforated strainer located on the side of the unit before entering into the sterilization chamber, preventing damage to both lamp and internal components.  A twin pass routing system further increases performance and dwell time. At the heart of the system is an epoxy sealed high performance compact fluorescent UV lamp cartridge (typical life 9,000 hours).  A waterproof epoxy seal protects lamp socket and electrical connections allowing lamp cartridge to fully be submerged unlike conventional sterilizers, which use transmission restrictive glass sleeves.  The result is a potent dose of ultraviolet light achieved through direct unfiltered water-tube contact, maximizing sterilization," including a "specifically tuned circulation pump optimized for perfect balance between ultraviolet exposure (dwell time) & flow control, ensuring effective sterilization." 

Now, I have no way of knowing whether their claims are accurate, no way to measure it, etc...other than to experience results from having used it.  My experience with the Deep Blue UV Sterilizer has been very good, as I have had no algae in the tank, no ich, etc...I selected it so I would not have to plumb it to the outside of the tank, it was stealth in size, and it could be completely submerged in the tank.  I know the cost of the Deep Blue was not cheap, and the relatively high price was on par with other brands that also claim to be legitimate UV Sterilizers.  It seems like they're very directly claiming that their product is most definitely a UV Sterilizer, and that they understand what distinguishes their product from one that merely improves water clarity.

It sounds pretty good to me if it's all true. But, I am past due with changing the bulb.  The suction cups are starting to fail on the back of the unit after only three years of use, so I'm not sure I'm going to keep using it unless I can mount it some other way inside the tank.  

Any UV light can be marketed as a sterilizer, because technically, with the right volume of water and flow, you would have sterilization instead of clarification. Last time I looked at that sterilizer for the size they rated it on the box, it did not provide sterilization. This takes in account the length of the bulb, the flow, volume of water, and the gap in the camber the water flows by the bulb. Plus the type of lamp, which when I check was a Medium Pressure instead of Low Pressure. 7% vs 35% output. Then considering the bulb isn't new...

Here's how to figure out:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html#flowtable

I'm not up on the history of it for sure, but I think Deep Blue manufactured a model prior to the "Clarity+," maybe just one entitled "Clarity," no plus. Maybe that is the one you saw.  Like I said, I'm not defending them, but rather I just hope that what I spent my hard earned money on is a legitimate sterilizer. Maybe the plus (+) was an improvement on performance, I HOPE!  They are pretty adamant about the Clarity+ being a legitimate sterilizer, but maybe they all claim that. I'm not up on the science enough to know for sure how to assess the pressure/light/Distance from the parasites, etc...as it relates to dwell time needed to kill the bugs, etc...they claim their chamber is specially designed to be effective with the light they're using, but who knows. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out further. Yeah, I do need to replace the bulb, for sure!  

[devonjohnsgard]

Dec 12, 2016 17:48:56 GMT -5 captain1201 said:

Dec 12, 2016 17:25:33 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

These marine lights have more blue light, which is most intense than white light. So, I'd say it's feeding the problem, since nothing else is "using" the light, the algae will. 5 hours is a good amount of light. I was going to recommend 6 hours with regular white light. I would adjust intensity more and if that doesn't work, use a silicate/phosphate remover.

You mean adjust the intensity of the light "down" more, right?  I can actually turn down whites and blues all the way down to zero if need be, but with respect to the whites, I can't independently reduce "K" ratings within the white LEDs, which is capable of delivering 8000K/12,000K.  I guess I'll dial everything down a bit more, and see how that works.  

Id down the intensity of the blue and make mostly white. Then run 5-6 hours. Right, don't need to change the K of the white. The blue light is just much more penetrating, meant for hard to penetrate corals.

[Carl]

Dec 12, 2016 18:02:24 GMT -5 captain1201 said:

Dec 12, 2016 17:20:54 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

I'm not up on the history of it for sure, but I think Deep Blue manufactured a model prior to the "Clarity+," maybe just one entitled "Clarity," no plus. Maybe that is the one you saw.  Like I said, I'm not defending them, but rather I just hope that what I spent my hard earned money on is a legitimate sterilizer. Maybe the plus (+) was an improvement on performance, I HOPE!  They are pretty adamant about the Clarity+ being a legitimate sterilizer, but maybe they all claim that. I'm not up on the science enough to know for sure how to assess the pressure/light/Distance from the parasites, etc...as it relates to dwell time needed to kill the bugs, etc...they claim their chamber is specially designed to be effective with the light they're using, but who knows. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out further. Yeah, I do need to replace the bulb, for sure!  

I would give this article a read:
www.uvsterilizerreview.com/2010/12/internal-uv-sterilizer-filter-pump.html#avoided

Carl