Sick Goldfish (Wickren) and Whether to Put Fish Down (Salyme

[goldenpuon]

Hi everyone!

I know that I haven't been on in ages. So besides my sick fish, I wanted to say hi and that I haven't forgotten about this wonderful forum or its awesome people! I have a couple issues related to my goldfish right now.

1. I have a goldfish that I have had 8 years named Wickren (the youngest goldfish I have) with 3 other ancient goldfish in a 40 gallon aquarium. A few weeks ago, I noticed that it had a white area around one side of its gills. I thought it might be missing scales, but that is not the case. Now it looks like it is a tiny bit raised and the white area is covering a larger area than it did before. I think it may have a little on its dorsal fin as well. I have noticed weight loss in this fish as well these past few months. However, this may/may not be related since after 8 years is typically about the age that my goldfish lose weight and their muscles atrophy from advanced age. Wickren does not seem to be acting sick in any way and is friendly and active. No other fish appear to be affected by the white growth.

I have attached some pictures and a video (I was doing a water change at the time) below. My apologies for the poor quality.












VIDEO: You can hear me specify which fish is which if you turn on the sound.
vid457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/VID_20160522_192055598_zps3jheg2pw.mp4

NOTE: I have some further background info that may not be directly related to this, but I feel is necessary to mention. 2 fish in the tank (Wickren and Salyme) have both had fin rot (I am aware that fin rot is not a disease in and of itself, but more a symptom) for at least 2 years. The other 2 goldfish in the tank have never been affected somehow. At first, I put in medicated wondershells which kept it under control. However, Carl told me that is not a good idea long-term. I medicated the tank with several different medications as per his suggestions and also tried medicated baths (this was also about 2 years ago). After trying a while with neither doing much, I gave up and switched back to the medicated wondershells. Thus, the goldfish have had medicated wondershells to keep the fin rot under control for the past 2 years. Luckily, the fish do not seem to have any ill effects from it that I can see. I try to only keep the medicated wondershells in 1/2 of the time (which unfortunately allows the fin rot to slowly progress). However, I imagine the fin rot and any other diseases kept at bay by it have probably developed a pretty good immunity to it by now. To the point, if I try to treat Salyme with something, there is a chance that it may not respond well to the medication due to the constant presence of the medicated wondershells. I also think that the white growing on Wickren may be a secondary infection due to a weakened immune system/that preyed on its damaged fins.


2.
I also got some pictures of my oldest goldfish Salyme that I am considering euthanizing as humanely as possible with
clove oil. I know his is a delicate topic as pets (even fish for people like us!) mean a lot to us. So my apologies if this topic causes any offense.

That said, Salyme still eats well and is fairly active, but seems weak at times. I am thinking it may be time to go ahead with euthanizing this fish with clove oil since it is emaciated/has lost most of its muscle due to age-related atrophy, but am unsure. I have had the fish nearly 10 years. I was planning to euthanize the fish back in December of 2014 thinking its time had come when it first lost a lot of weight due to age and was thin, but not as thin as now. I held back which was the right decision at the time I think. The fish has been doing quite well considering its advanced age. As for whether to put the fish down now, I don't care how Salyme looks. My concern is that I don't want my pet to suffer. I don't want to keep the fish alive if it is suffering significantly, but don't want to end its life based on physical appearance if the fish is likely not or barely suffering. I am well aware that this is a personal judgement call and that there is no definite correct answer to this. So I guess, to my question, based on my description and the pictures and videos below, does Salyme seem to be suffering significantly?





Thanks!

Renee

[Carl]

Hi Renee!

Starting with Salyme, my opinion is since he/she is eating I feel there is some "quality of life", but once a weak fish stops eating is when I would consider euthanizing.

As for Wickren, you made some excellent point and gave some good background information about treatment history, including baths.

As long as you give some equal time off between Medicated Wonder Shells, this should not be too problematic. What this does tell me is that you are definitely dealing with a weak fish that is likely not fully curable since it takes an almost constant treatment to be relatively disease free, especially since I also know that you provide good care for your fish in almost all key aspects (although I am unsure if you have a UV Sterilizer, which at this point may be too little too late anyways)

What I would consider in between Medicated Wonder shells, is upping the salt level (then lowering during MWS use). As well the use of AAP/SeaChem StressGuard during this time as well. While my experience with this newer product is more limited, many members here as well as friends I trust have had good results with this product.

Product Resource:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Seachem.html#stressguard

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Hi Carl! Thanks for getting back to me.

I have to agree on Salyme looking at her (probably a her lol). A few weeks ago, Salyme was looking thinner, but seems to have put some weight back on looking at the pictures and at her in the tank. Salyme may well see her 10th birthday with me!

Thanks for the info on Wickren. Salyme does suffer from the fin rot too, but to quite a bit more of a mild degree. I admit that I only do water changes about once a month, though there are only 4 goldfish in the tank and they are all under 5 inches I'd say. I'm trying to do them more often, though it is harder now that I am working full-time.

No, I don't have a UV sterilizer. I agree that it is too late (plus these fish are quite old and (though it would be awesome), there is no fishy fountain of youth!

Would you recommend the medicated wondershell (MWS) and elevated salt levels in between the MWS uses for the growth around Wickren's gill at well (not just the fin rot)? Or should I treat that a different way? Wickren DID NOT have that these past 2 years. The white growth appeared within the last month.

I will keep StressGuard in mind for the future. I'd like to use it, but it appears to be toxic when used with MWS and I don't want to risk it in case there are still trace amounts of copper from the MWS in between the MWS treatments.

Thanks again for the help!

Renee

[Carl]

I am not sure if U understand your question completely.

You can use the salt (NaCl) at elevated levels, just do not keep it there for more than two weeks.
Ditto the MWS, give your aquarium a "rest for a couple of weeks in between the MWS

I will keep StressGuard in mind for the future. I'd like to use it, but it appears to be toxic when used with MWS and I don't want to risk it in case there are still trace amounts of copper from the MWS in between the MWS treatments.

The amount of copper in a MWS along with the fact the aldehydes in StressGuard are quickly depleted that along a with a small water change (25%) and 24 hours after removal of the MWS, there should be no issue (we have seen no issues with just the procedure).
Also keep in mind that new water likely will be more oxidizing and and aeration in your aquarium will also quickly deplete these Redox reducing aldehydes

Carl