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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 8:41:47 GMT -5
Tank specks: -180g -sand bottom -large wood pieces -ammonia/nitrite 0 -nitrate 10 -pH 6 -Indian almond leaves -Wonder shell -50% weekly WC (done Wednesday) -3x Eheim 2217 -2x 2' airstones -tank set up 9 months ago. Some fish shipped here from my tanks in Chicago, many purchased from Freshwater Aquatics, Jeff Rapps & Wetspot. No new fish in at least 3 months. Wednesday: 1st thing I noticed was my $450 7-point Scarlet pleco out from his cave & resting at the top of the tank (where he NEVER is), in front of the outflow of the filter. He had no outward signs of disease, just looked uncomfortable & out of place there. Did 50% WC, no difference. I offered worms to the tank (his favorite!) & he never left his perch. VERY unlike him not to eat. Thursday: Morning he was still up there but was teetering on top of the wood--looked very uncomfortable. I noticed the edges of his caudal & pectorals were light in color & looking a little frayed. I added 1 tbsp salt/10g. I went out for the evening & by the time I got home he was DEAD!!! This was Thursday evening. Friday: Some cichlids are now showing white-edged frayed fins. They don't look stressed & are still eating. Plecos & loaches on the other hand, are at the top or laying on airstones, breathing VERY heavily. All loaches & a rare tiger cat look near death & are flailing around the tank, doing loops I don't expect them to make it until morning. Added another tbsp salt/10g. Added some old BiFuran+ (nitrofurazone & furazolidone) & Kanacyn. This is what I had in the house. Spent a good part of yesterday looking for Maracyn 2. Walmart is supposed to carry it. None have it. Neither does the only good LFS in this small town in SC. Ordered Maracyn 2 online but it won't get here until next week. I might have enough BiFuran left to replace a 25% WC. I added 2 x Aquaclear 70s & lowered the water level, to increase more O2 exchange, since the fish are breathing so heavily. Saturday: As I had guessed--all loaches & tiger cat are dead. Rest of the plecos who didn't show signs yesterday are breathing heavily. So far, the cichlids look OK, other than some white on their fins. They're still eating. I also have an 18 year old fahaka puffer who looks fine, thank God!!! PLEASE HELP!!  In all my 40 years of fishkeeping, I've never has such issues with disease, as I have here in SC. I have kept some of my fish alive for decades. |
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Post by Carl on Apr 9, 2016 10:08:13 GMT -5
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 10:12:12 GMT -5
I have already added: Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone, in the form of BiFuran+ (nitrofurazone & furazolidone) & Kanacyn. Also, 1 tbsp salt/5g. I am in a small town & they carry NO good meds here. I haven't added any new fish in over 3 months & everyone was very healthy until 4 days ago. I only have a small amount of Furan left, maybe enough to make up for a 25% WC. Should I do that tomorrow?
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Post by Carl on Apr 9, 2016 10:34:01 GMT -5
It is the combination of all three that often makes the difference (this was a product once sold by Aquatronics for very difficult diseases).
A Medicated Wonder Shell works similarly, but is not nearly as strong and would be a better follow up.
Methylene blue used in a bath is also often helpful for serious issues as evennif it is not the cure, it enable the fish to survive long enough for the cure to be effected
From:
"Since Methylene blue is a redox dye and raises the oxygen consumption of cells, this causes the hydrogen oxidized to be passed on to the oxygen.
Each molecule of the dye is oxidized and reduced about 100 times per second. Thus, while disinfection results from this, methylene blue is also excellent against methemoglobin intoxication.
The therapeutic action of methylene blue on bacteria and other parasites is probably due to its binding effect with cytoplasmic structures within the cell and also its interference with oxidation-reduction processes."
Carl
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Post by Carl on Apr 9, 2016 12:34:35 GMT -5
I should note that we offer air service and even ship on Saturday if we get the order by about 12 noon PDT  In fact if we miss the pick up, I would even drive it down to the shipping center today so that a 2 day air package could go out (which would extend the time to about 2 PDT)! Carl |
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 14:52:28 GMT -5
I am on your website, ordering these meds. I'm not sure how many days to treat for, so I purchase the correct amount. I am going to need overnight shipping. I only have enough here (after scouring the entire town today) for 1 day's treatment of Furan & Kanaplex.
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 15:42:24 GMT -5
Do you carry a 50g size of Kanaplex? I am not seeing Septicemia on their bellies.  |
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Post by Carl on Apr 9, 2016 16:51:14 GMT -5
Do you carry a 50g size of Kanaplex? I am not seeing Septicemia on their bellies. No, only the 5 gram which treats 150 gallons Septicemia is not the issue, the reason for these meds is a synergistic combination that is very strong when dealing with an unknown pathogen as per the other article I provided (similar to the now unavailable Aquatronics product that was one of the best for such emergencies and combines the three suggested meds) At least 3 treatments and I would also suggest keeping extras to have on hand as per the Aquarium Disease Prevention Article I provided earlier. One day shipping is not available on a Saturday, only two day and even then not by UPS, but by using USPS Express and dropping off at the main USPS distribution center (not carrier pick up) it generally will then arrive in 2 days (not counting Sundays) Carl |
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 16:53:25 GMT -5
I did a 50% WC & added the meds I purchased today & more salt. I guess this will have to hold them until the ones I ordered from you get here. Just pulled out 2 more large, rare plecos. 1 of them I raise from a 1" baby...
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 18:16:36 GMT -5
Do you think I'll get this on Monday? What should I do until then? I have enough Furan to treat about 30 gal & enough Kanaplex to treat 120g & plenty of salt. I also purchased National Geographic herbal relief for bacterial and fungal diseases but I'm kind of afraid to use it.
Ingredients: Active Ingredients Per Ounce: Citrus Oil 40.82mg, Eucalyptus Oil 19.89 mg, Neem Oil 41.27mg, Cinnamon Oil 22.66mg Inactive Ingredients: Butylated Hydroxytoluene, Deionized Water, Ethoxylated Castor Oil, Ethoxylated Palm Kernel Oil, Methylparaben, Polyvinylpyrrolidone, Triethylene Glycol
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Post by Carl on Apr 9, 2016 19:02:31 GMT -5
Do you think I'll get this on Monday? What should I do until then? I have enough Furan to treat about 30 gal & enough Kanaplex to treat 120g & plenty of salt. I also purchased National Geographic herbal relief for bacterial and fungal diseases but I'm kind of afraid to use it. Ingredients: Active Ingredients Per Ounce: Citrus Oil 40.82mg, Eucalyptus Oil 19.89 mg, Neem Oil 41.27mg, Cinnamon Oil 22.66mg Inactive Ingredients: Butylated Hydroxytoluene, Deionized Water, Ethoxylated Castor Oil, Ethoxylated Palm Kernel Oil, Methylparaben, Polyvinylpyrrolidone, Triethylene Glycol Since this is a two day service (although the USPS sometimes can do this in 1 day for larger cities), it is likely to be Tuesday In the mean time, I would perform the baths exactly as I noted earlier as MB can be very helpful to just helping the fish survive, even where it does nothing treating the pathogen (as noted in the quote in green font earlier in this thread) Neem oil in particular has some useful properties, so I would go ahead and use in tank and then simply change the water when the other meds arrive Please Read this link about the active ingredients in this product which are very similar to a Kordon Product (Kordon Fish Therapy): www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication4.html#therapeutic-oilsProduct Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/FritzMardelKordon.html#therapyI would still strongly suggest a good UV Sterilizer such as the Vecton (not a cheap one, as often this are nothing more than clarifiers that do little other than clarification). In my days of professional aquarium maintenance, I would not guarantee and aquarium unless they had a level one or higher capable UV Sterilizer Also, please go over the list in the Aquarium Disease Prevention article I provided earlier in this thread Good luck! Carl |
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 9, 2016 20:13:04 GMT -5
i have only Kanacyn left. Added all the Furan I had. Couldn't find any MB. I'll add the holistic med. More are dying.
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 10, 2016 9:15:40 GMT -5
I have a freezer full of dead fish! 1 more death before bed. No deaths overnight though. I am shocked that a pleco who was doing the "death roll" yesterday, is alive & actually swimming this morning. All the cichlids though, are hiding in the back bottom of the tank. Tossed in the remainder of the Kanaplex--it's only enough to treat 120g but I figure it's better than nothing. Out of Furan. I'm not going to feed them today. I pray the meds arrive tomorrow!
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Post by Carl on Apr 10, 2016 10:12:06 GMT -5
Sorry for these losses I assumed you had Methylene Blue; this is most definitely one medication I would NEVER be without and kept in my aquarium maintenance kit for all visits, regardless of whether there was problem or not. You might use that herbal med in a bath at a higher strength, but the ingredients there in do not have the therapeutic affect that MB has. PLEASE READ: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html#onhandtreatmentsCarl |
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 10, 2016 10:32:44 GMT -5
It does seem that the herbal med helped last night & so far, no more deaths. I am going to take a 50 mile trip into the mountains to a LFS that is open on a Sunday. Not open for another 1/2 hour--I pray they have the meds I need for the next 2 days!
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 11, 2016 8:18:42 GMT -5
No new deaths in the past 24 hours! I scraped up more Nitrofurazone in a town 60 miles up in the mountains & have convinced the LFS here to sell me some of their private stock of Kanacyn. Hopefully your meds will get here tomorrow! I looked up fish vets locally & am following up on some today.
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Post by Carl on Apr 11, 2016 9:41:25 GMT -5
Great!
How many treatments of National Geographic herbal relief have you done?
Did you pick up some Methylene Blue?
Carl
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 11, 2016 13:38:00 GMT -5
(clap, clap, clap...) Some serious help from Carl here. Running back to the shop is a rare, if not, something that never happens. Taking good care of Pufferpunk.
I do see some recommendations, which I would also recommend, not being address after Carl gives the advice. Since there's such an issue going on here, I would follow Carl's advice 100% and not even try taking just some of the advice thinking it should help some. Like the Methylene Blue. This is a must have for any serious aquarium keeper.
I'd also revisit the prevention article and consider the meds to have on hand. Most all aquarium keepers will have an illness happen without having what they need on hand... making treatment success so much more less.
Great job again Carl. Haven't seen weekend after hours service at this level before.
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Post by pufferpunk on Apr 11, 2016 15:33:37 GMT -5
Meds arrived today!!! Thanks so much Carl! Did a deep cleaning of the tank, especially under rocks. Found a bunch of organics under a pile of rocks & boy, did it stink! I do believe this may be the cause of all my problems in this tank, which would explain why only this tank & none of the others are having problems. I added ALL the meds I received & salt, after the 60% WC & also removed all the Indian almond leaves. I don't want anything decomposing in this tank. I added the 2nd dose of herbal meds. I'm not sure there's enough for a 3rd full dose of this & it's been discontinued.  I swear, the fish look better already!  |
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Post by Carl on Apr 11, 2016 16:11:28 GMT -5
Glad to read this and a pleasant surprise from the USPS, but then I stuck several Express stickers to hopefully get the message across that this was not just regular Priority mail! It seems the natural remedy might have helped. Definitely cleaning out any decomposition is important too. BTW, Kordon has a similar product in the Fish Therapy, but it is not meant for in tank use, rather baths or short term hospital staffs www.americanaquariumproducts.com/FritzMardelKordon.html#therapyCarl |
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In all my 40 years of fishkeeping, I've never has such issues with disease, as I have here in SC. I have kept some of my fish alive for decades.
