Post by kevin on Aug 27, 2014 16:54:16 GMT -5
Hi guys,
This is kind of continued from the introduction board regarding large Medicated Wondershells. There were a couple of lingering questions from my last post--
1) do I still wait 30 min after using prime or other water conditioner to introduce Med Wondershells?
2) after 2 large Med shells back to back, over 8 days, do I keep putting in until 2-3 weeks total? or base it on improved condition? Or do I just let these whittle down to nothing and then stop?
You guys asked about GH, filters and media, etc. I'll try to give history run down and not be wordy--
65 gal tank, Emperor 400 w/ biowheel (ya I know- I've been reading you for month and half), air pump with two separate lines to stones for one fish- Convict cichlid (I think) at approx 15 years old, about 11-12" long. Been only child for whole time. Hadn't really done much over the years (didn't know then what I do now thanks to you). Rinsed filters every month or two- yes, under the faucet, change in 3-4 mo. Used to do 10-20% water change 3-4 month with gravel vac until my wife got me surface vac with screen so thought that replaced removing water. (Ok- I've been a bad dad, and really embarrassed to admit all this stuff publicly). And checked with strips once in a while but nothing seemed out of wack.
Couple years ago he stopped eating flakes or pellets so changed to frozen blood worm, brine shrimp and veggie combo packs. Again all fine.
My nephew had taken over feeding a year or so ago and guess he wasn't eating all so got a build up of food (not sure how long), and my lack of attention in pulling out water added to problems. Fishy (his name) seemed sick one day early July, hanging out near bottom kinda leaning against side of tank on bottom. So started this journey.
I did 40% water change, started trips to the lfs "big box" and testing. Got new strips because thought they weren't reading right.
Nitrates: 200+, Nitrites: 0, GH: 300 (top of scale), Chlorine: 0, KH; 120, Ph: 7.2-ish. Liquid test on ph was 7.6. or fairly deep blue, but I'm not using the high Ph test kit. To date, most of that is still about the same even after all the water changes etc.
I started with trying to lower Nitrates, used API Nitrazorb packs (2) in with reg filter media. Did several 20% changes, tried changing reg filters and did several deep gravel vacs- altho not super dirty after I got all the dead food out. Have a castle structure that I did finally get a bunch under that (per your articles). Now fairly clean. Thats tank and water.
Fishy got Ich a couple days after I started dealing with Nitrates. Did per instruction on bottle two rounds of API Super Ich Cure, which has 48 hr intervals, water chg etc. Pulled carbon filters and nitrazorb out during that. Ran temp about 82-84 per all I read (hadn't found you yet) and introduced API Aquarium salt over 3-4 days to not hit all at once. Got rid of Ich so went back to Nitrate reduction. Within couple weeks from first starting (but after Ich), his HITH came back (had it 5-8 yrs ago but not active new holes and kinda grew back) with new holes and his fins started looking raggedy-esp tail. During this 2+ week time, wouldn't eat. I was trying cubes, but when he didn't eat right away, sucked back out. I tried a couple forums asking about dealing with HITH and fin rot vs Nitrates and do I medicate before water stable. Got advice that seemed like they never read question. Went to a shop and asked-thinking I'd get better info, until he said Nitrates were start of cycle. All I did there was buy garlic to help him eat. Have down several 10% and 20% changes, doing deep vac only in sections at a time-not entire bottom.
I found AAP site and UAA and education really started.
I've since switched food to Omega One frozen Cichlid food and I put a couple drops of garlic extract on each cube and sit for 5 min, and he gets 5-6 per day and eats within 3 min. I ordered regular and Medicated wondershells, Seachem stability (vs StressZyme), box of Algone and a couple additional meds if needed-which I haven't used yet. (Have Furan 2 and Metronidazole for bacterial and fungal but holding off until advised). Originally bought a Tetra fungus cure from BB store, but after researching ingredients and reading your stuff, bought the prev mentioned instead. Also started with liq nitrate test kit.
I've taken pics along the way and have kept journal notes of what I did, how much and when. So 8/19 put in two packs of Algone down into filter. 8/20 removed activated carbon but cut blue filter material to fit and pinched between plastic refillable cartridges, then added 1st Medicated Wondershell and added Stability. 8/23 (sat) 1st shell down by at least 30%, did 20% water change, rinsed filter in used aquarium water, vac top particles, gravel vac deep again, removed Algone-seemed super ballooned out so trashed, 15ml Stability, 3ml Prime (total) in water change buckets to affect 30 gal worth of water to help bring down Nitrate, salt again for 12 gal new water.
I added 2nd Medicated shell back in 8/26-tues after posting in introductions. The Nitrate liquid test is still deep red so 160ppm I guess? Finishing out Medicated wondershells but unsure (see question at beginning) on duration. I have a plan on whats next, but at this point, willing to defer to more experienced folks. I do have more Algone, but nothing I do seems to bring that level down. Looked down into filter basin but doesn't seemed like buildup of mulm in bottom but didn't want to disassemble and pull all out to clean in sink. As a note: I left the biowheels in for all the above. Fishy's tail seems much better- less ragged, but hard to tell on HITH if still getting worse. Not much blue stain in it tho. He's eating, and swimming around as pretty happy. Doing weird at rest tho. He hangs verticle- not at top like sucking air, nor tail on bottom. Just verticle near edge or corner of tank until I come by or open the top then swims around like normal.
I hope that wasn't too much info, but I felt with everything I'd done in last 45 days or so, you want to get an idea what I've tried so far.
Whew! Not sure if pics will help? Thats my story- thus far. Thanks for your feedback. Kevin
This is kind of continued from the introduction board regarding large Medicated Wondershells. There were a couple of lingering questions from my last post--
1) do I still wait 30 min after using prime or other water conditioner to introduce Med Wondershells?
2) after 2 large Med shells back to back, over 8 days, do I keep putting in until 2-3 weeks total? or base it on improved condition? Or do I just let these whittle down to nothing and then stop?
You guys asked about GH, filters and media, etc. I'll try to give history run down and not be wordy--
65 gal tank, Emperor 400 w/ biowheel (ya I know- I've been reading you for month and half), air pump with two separate lines to stones for one fish- Convict cichlid (I think) at approx 15 years old, about 11-12" long. Been only child for whole time. Hadn't really done much over the years (didn't know then what I do now thanks to you). Rinsed filters every month or two- yes, under the faucet, change in 3-4 mo. Used to do 10-20% water change 3-4 month with gravel vac until my wife got me surface vac with screen so thought that replaced removing water. (Ok- I've been a bad dad, and really embarrassed to admit all this stuff publicly). And checked with strips once in a while but nothing seemed out of wack.
Couple years ago he stopped eating flakes or pellets so changed to frozen blood worm, brine shrimp and veggie combo packs. Again all fine.
My nephew had taken over feeding a year or so ago and guess he wasn't eating all so got a build up of food (not sure how long), and my lack of attention in pulling out water added to problems. Fishy (his name) seemed sick one day early July, hanging out near bottom kinda leaning against side of tank on bottom. So started this journey.
I did 40% water change, started trips to the lfs "big box" and testing. Got new strips because thought they weren't reading right.
Nitrates: 200+, Nitrites: 0, GH: 300 (top of scale), Chlorine: 0, KH; 120, Ph: 7.2-ish. Liquid test on ph was 7.6. or fairly deep blue, but I'm not using the high Ph test kit. To date, most of that is still about the same even after all the water changes etc.
I started with trying to lower Nitrates, used API Nitrazorb packs (2) in with reg filter media. Did several 20% changes, tried changing reg filters and did several deep gravel vacs- altho not super dirty after I got all the dead food out. Have a castle structure that I did finally get a bunch under that (per your articles). Now fairly clean. Thats tank and water.
Fishy got Ich a couple days after I started dealing with Nitrates. Did per instruction on bottle two rounds of API Super Ich Cure, which has 48 hr intervals, water chg etc. Pulled carbon filters and nitrazorb out during that. Ran temp about 82-84 per all I read (hadn't found you yet) and introduced API Aquarium salt over 3-4 days to not hit all at once. Got rid of Ich so went back to Nitrate reduction. Within couple weeks from first starting (but after Ich), his HITH came back (had it 5-8 yrs ago but not active new holes and kinda grew back) with new holes and his fins started looking raggedy-esp tail. During this 2+ week time, wouldn't eat. I was trying cubes, but when he didn't eat right away, sucked back out. I tried a couple forums asking about dealing with HITH and fin rot vs Nitrates and do I medicate before water stable. Got advice that seemed like they never read question. Went to a shop and asked-thinking I'd get better info, until he said Nitrates were start of cycle. All I did there was buy garlic to help him eat. Have down several 10% and 20% changes, doing deep vac only in sections at a time-not entire bottom.
I found AAP site and UAA and education really started.
I've since switched food to Omega One frozen Cichlid food and I put a couple drops of garlic extract on each cube and sit for 5 min, and he gets 5-6 per day and eats within 3 min. I ordered regular and Medicated wondershells, Seachem stability (vs StressZyme), box of Algone and a couple additional meds if needed-which I haven't used yet. (Have Furan 2 and Metronidazole for bacterial and fungal but holding off until advised). Originally bought a Tetra fungus cure from BB store, but after researching ingredients and reading your stuff, bought the prev mentioned instead. Also started with liq nitrate test kit.
I've taken pics along the way and have kept journal notes of what I did, how much and when. So 8/19 put in two packs of Algone down into filter. 8/20 removed activated carbon but cut blue filter material to fit and pinched between plastic refillable cartridges, then added 1st Medicated Wondershell and added Stability. 8/23 (sat) 1st shell down by at least 30%, did 20% water change, rinsed filter in used aquarium water, vac top particles, gravel vac deep again, removed Algone-seemed super ballooned out so trashed, 15ml Stability, 3ml Prime (total) in water change buckets to affect 30 gal worth of water to help bring down Nitrate, salt again for 12 gal new water.
I added 2nd Medicated shell back in 8/26-tues after posting in introductions. The Nitrate liquid test is still deep red so 160ppm I guess? Finishing out Medicated wondershells but unsure (see question at beginning) on duration. I have a plan on whats next, but at this point, willing to defer to more experienced folks. I do have more Algone, but nothing I do seems to bring that level down. Looked down into filter basin but doesn't seemed like buildup of mulm in bottom but didn't want to disassemble and pull all out to clean in sink. As a note: I left the biowheels in for all the above. Fishy's tail seems much better- less ragged, but hard to tell on HITH if still getting worse. Not much blue stain in it tho. He's eating, and swimming around as pretty happy. Doing weird at rest tho. He hangs verticle- not at top like sucking air, nor tail on bottom. Just verticle near edge or corner of tank until I come by or open the top then swims around like normal.
I hope that wasn't too much info, but I felt with everything I'd done in last 45 days or so, you want to get an idea what I've tried so far.
Whew! Not sure if pics will help? Thats my story- thus far. Thanks for your feedback. Kevin
