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OSCRS
Apr 25, 2014 2:16:17 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 25, 2014 2:16:17 GMT -5
I agree with Carl also, When I first got the both of them they came from the same tank as about 6 others, they were no more then 1/2 to 1 inch long, Now they are 9 inches long and they seem to be fighting all the time. and I would really hate to see 1 get killed. If it happens it will be the albino that looses, I m always seeing him in the corner when they are going at it. To be honest though I didn't think fish could kill each other. Other then eating them. But to watch them fight they either lock mouths or bump into each other. What is it that actually kills them? I need to get rid of one but I don't know anyone who wants a 9 inch Oscar. I would have to let them pick which one too cause I couldn't make that decision. But the way they have been in the last two or three days one has to go.
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OSCRS
Apr 25, 2014 9:04:25 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Apr 25, 2014 9:04:25 GMT -5
I cannot say that there is one exact reason a fish dies from fighting. Sometimes the fish is beat up so bad it simply shuts down and dies. Most often from my observations, the fish slowly looses its ability to produce a slime coat (think pealing your own skin off), which then allows diseases to invade and kill the fish. Stress itself is a major cause, especially with the disease Columnaris which is very opportunistic. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.htmlKeeping salt and mineral Cations in your aquarium can help with stress and also help with osmoregulation natural slime coat generation Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.htmlGood Luck Carl
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OSCRS
Apr 25, 2014 12:45:20 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 25, 2014 12:45:20 GMT -5
Man, tough situation. Tough call, but maybe a lfs?
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OSCRS
Apr 30, 2014 19:28:57 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 30, 2014 19:28:57 GMT -5
Just enjoy. I have to get rid of one of mine. They are fighting more and more everyday.
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OSCRS
May 2, 2014 13:24:14 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on May 2, 2014 13:24:14 GMT -5
Just enjoy. I have to get rid of one of mine. They are fighting more and more everyday. I like your signature
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OSCRS
May 2, 2014 13:44:34 GMT -5
Post by parker002 on May 2, 2014 13:44:34 GMT -5
I know this seems somewhat counter-intuitive but have you considered ADDING a fish rather than getting rid of one?
It may not help the problem at all but I keep some mildly aggressive fish (columbian red/blue tetras and angels) and I've noticed that the more of them there are, the less aggressive they are to individual fish. They tend to "spread the love" which prevents that one fish from getting overwhelmed.
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OSCRS
May 2, 2014 16:50:13 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on May 2, 2014 16:50:13 GMT -5
I know this seems somewhat counter-intuitive but have you considered ADDING a fish rather than getting rid of one? It may not help the problem at all but I keep some mildly aggressive fish (columbian red/blue tetras and angels) and I've noticed that the more of them there are, the less aggressive they are to individual fish. They tend to "spread the love" which prevents that one fish from getting overwhelmed. Interesting observation Parker. I glad your here to share your wisdom!
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OSCRS
May 3, 2014 10:25:34 GMT -5
Post by parker002 on May 3, 2014 10:25:34 GMT -5
Pretty much everything I know about fish keeping I've learned from Carl.
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OSCRS
May 3, 2014 11:26:14 GMT -5
Post by Carl on May 3, 2014 11:26:14 GMT -5
Pretty much everything I know about fish keeping I've learned from Carl. Thanks, but these are good words of wisdom that I too have learned from others as well as experience. With many Cichlids, having a higher number instead of just 2 or 3 most definitely helps "spread the love". This way, even if there is a very dominant fish, it is difficult for him (or even her) to constantly hammer on one fish. Although this said, I have seen just one fish in a group get singled out, so noting is for certain as mixing of fish is most definitely the subjective part of the hobby. What is also interesting , and a little off subject, is some fish that are not normally territorial, are more aggressive when their are just 2. The fish that comes to mind is the Yellow Tang (saltwater). I could never keep just two, but another person (hence my also learning from others) suggested that I try 3 or more, and suddenly these fish were schooling and not attacking each other. I think this is somewhat the case with many schooling freshwater fish in the Tetra family Carl
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OSCRS
May 23, 2014 11:31:42 GMT -5
Post by cashay on May 23, 2014 11:31:42 GMT -5
I did put another fish in the tank with them, not sure of the name but it looks like an albino shark, or some what in the family. I had it in my 55 gallon tank but he was aggressive to the other fish always chasing them, so I thought he may do ok in the oscar tank, The first 15 minutes or so he did fine. He swam around not giving the Oscars even a glance, But then all of the sudden my albino oscar decided he was going to try and eat it. well thank goodness the other fish was faster and went and hid behind a decor the oscar couldnt get in, but that is where he stayed all the time scared to death. He stayed there for a week , and I started worry about how he was going to get enough to eat. Because every time he came out The Oscar was on him. SoI decided to move him back into general population with his old roomies, where again he defends one small area and will chase any fish that goes near it. I have an plecebo in the tank with the oscars and he is almost as big as them so they dont mess with him. he is mostly hiding until dark anyway. I tried seperating the Oscar with a divider . But they had that torn down in no time. I do have another 55 gallon tank for one of them I just don't have any room in my house for it. My husband says enough is enough lol. I have a 55 gallon, a 75 gallon and a 2500 gallon pond outside. so for now my hands are tied, I just dont understand the Oscars though, they sleep together they swim together in sync they eat together with no problem but they just start fighting out of the blue? Im not sure with putting bigger fish with them to distract them from each other. But the tank is really to small for both of them, and the pleco. 75 gallons now I really cant get any bigger! But any advise from anyone I will try OH by the way how is the sister in law enjoying her Oscar Devon?
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OSCRS
May 23, 2014 14:24:56 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on May 23, 2014 14:24:56 GMT -5
I did put another fish in the tank with them, not sure of the name but it looks like an albino shark, or some what in the family. I had it in my 55 gallon tank but he was aggressive to the other fish always chasing them, so I thought he may do ok in the oscar tank, The first 15 minutes or so he did fine. He swam around not giving the Oscars even a glance, But then all of the sudden my albino oscar decided he was going to try and eat it. well thank goodness the other fish was faster and went and hid behind a decor the oscar couldnt get in, but that is where he stayed all the time scared to death. He stayed there for a week , and I started worry about how he was going to get enough to eat. Because every time he came out The Oscar was on him. SoI decided to move him back into general population with his old roomies, where again he defends one small area and will chase any fish that goes near it. I have an plecebo in the tank with the oscars and he is almost as big as them so they dont mess with him. he is mostly hiding until dark anyway. I tried seperating the Oscar with a divider . But they had that torn down in no time. I do have another 55 gallon tank for one of them I just don't have any room in my house for it. My husband says enough is enough lol. I have a 55 gallon, a 75 gallon and a 2500 gallon pond outside. so for now my hands are tied, I just dont understand the Oscars though, they sleep together they swim together in sync they eat together with no problem but they just start fighting out of the blue? Im not sure with putting bigger fish with them to distract them from each other. But the tank is really to small for both of them, and the pleco. 75 gallons now I really cant get any bigger! But any advise from anyone I will try OH by the way how is the sister in law enjoying her Oscar Devon? This is pretty much what I keep hearing about oscars. They just get a little aggressive. Almost like me and my three brothers I suppose...We hang out and used to sleep in the same house, but hey, sometimes we fought, you know? To bad the mystery fish can't find a good place though. Do you think he is still growing? As time goes on, maybe he will be able to put up a better fight? My wife sometimes says enough is enough with my 40 gallon! lol I wish I knew something else to suggest, but I'm just not sure. I haven't had the experience with these fish to know. I still haven't set up that tank for my sister in law. Time just was not on my side. I had to take everything out of my 20 long and put it in my 40 to give them more room. I was going to set up the 20 for her to house the ocsar. She wants just one Tiger Oscar. It's in my hands, I just need to get it done. I basically just got my 40 done, which I want to start a thread for, but that is the reason I haven't got the oscar for her yet. The fish I have took priority. It's still in the works, just taking my time. Thanks for thinking of me. I'll take pictures once it happens. She asks me maybe once or twice a week, so I best get that in motion... Soon enough.
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OSCRS
May 23, 2014 16:03:53 GMT -5
Post by Carl on May 23, 2014 16:03:53 GMT -5
Sherry; When it comes to fish behavior, it often is subjective since fish have individual temperaments.
With Oscars, you have an intelligent territorial fish who likely saw the Shark as an intruder, lunch, or both.
Often it is a matter of overwhelming the Oscar with too many fish for him/her to consider a territorial threat, however if he/she is thinking "lunch" even this will not work.
My best advice at this point is to move the shark back to the smaller aquarium.
As a side note, what you are witnessing is a common problem and the fact you have a pond makes me think of a few customers I had over the years. In one case I had a customer in So. California with a Ruby Scat that got very aggressive and started attacking other fish, including his favorite. He finally decided enough is enough and rather that euthanize his fish or attempt to find another home, he threw it into the pond where (since it was early summer), it thrived. However even So CA winter dropped temperatures in the pond into the 50s (F) and he died during this time. The customer told me that he felt he gave the fish a chance, but he did not regret his decision
Carl
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OSCRS
Jul 20, 2014 22:09:08 GMT -5
Post by goldenpuon on Jul 20, 2014 22:09:08 GMT -5
Hi Cashay. Your oscars are really beautiful! Sorry I am late to this thread and I know some of this has already been mentioned/discussed, but here'e my take on it. The ammonia and nitrite when you first listed the readings were certainly high. If they still are (say above 1ppm), I would recommend waiting until you get the nitrite and ammonia down before you start adding any kind of buffers to the water because ammonia is more toxic at a higher PH. With Oscars, I am unsure if they prefer soft water or hard water or in between, but I second Carl about having a KH of at least 80 and GH of probably at least 150. PH swings are much more stressful to fish than having a PH a little higher or lower than the PH range what is recommended for the fish species. For the aggression, adding several small fish (since the oscars are so big, you probably wouldn't want to add larger fish and overcrowd them) is definitely a good idea. To add onto what others have said, have you tried adding fish to distract them that are colorful? I have no idea if colorful versus uncolorful fish would actually make a difference in distracting the oscars, but I believe oscars see in color and color has a big part in showing aggression with fish, so it's worth a try. A note of caution though, until your ammonia and nitrite are lower, I wouldn't add any fish, but perhaps a non see-thru divider would solve things until then. Some other questions that may help gauge what's going on. - How long has the tank been set up? - Could there be mulm buildup anywhere? You said you have a gravel-free aquarium if I remember what I read correctly. I believe that mulm buildup can turn water acidic (drive PH down). The acidic water and high ammonia and nitrites makes me wonder if this is the case. Best of luck Cashay! P.S. I still remember Cashay your betta and the story of how you got him from ages ago! Renee
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OSCRS
Aug 1, 2014 18:19:15 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Aug 1, 2014 18:19:15 GMT -5
Oscars are still in the love hate relationship. But doing well, If I could just stop them from moving my decor around in the tank lol. Everyday I have to fix either my sponge filter because they have knocked it over,Or move my artificial plants back to where I had them because they move them all over the place. knock my thermoter. or knock off the suction part of HOB filter, my water splashes all over the place when they do that. They make a mess! They sure do keep me occupied. I love my boys!
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OSCRS
Aug 1, 2014 18:46:05 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Aug 1, 2014 18:46:05 GMT -5
It is cool you still love your "boys" even with their "flaws" of making messes
I do have a suggestion, that you might have already tried; place some large rocks around your sponge filter and HOB Filter intake. With filter intakes, this can be a bit tricky, however I have been quite successful walling off air driven sponge filters from large fish.
Carl
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OSCRS
Aug 1, 2014 19:17:13 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Aug 1, 2014 19:17:13 GMT -5
LOL I tried, they move them! hahahaha
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OSCRS
Aug 2, 2014 10:15:51 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Aug 2, 2014 10:15:51 GMT -5
LOL I tried, they move them! hahahaha Then use bricks Carl
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OSCRS
Aug 3, 2014 1:46:15 GMT -5
Post by angelminx on Aug 3, 2014 1:46:15 GMT -5
Back when I had my tiger oscar, she used to wreak havoc with the intake from my Whisper 60 HOB, and I had to keep buying replacement extension tubes, because they kept getting cracked, and wouldn't stay together. After I had her about 5 years, I found out she was a female, because I woke up on day to find that she'd dug a "pit" and laid some eggs. They were always gone the next day. At this point, she was alone in the tank, because her roommate died while I was away in college. "Nursie" was a large (approx 12") common plecostomus that lived with her. I had a LARGE chunk of petrified wood in the tank that Nursie would sometimes "hide" behind, but usually she sat out on top of it. When I 1st bought her, she was a little smaller (as was the oscar), but as the oscar grew she would occassionally go after the pleco, but she'd just turn around and "fight back". After a couple of times of this happening, the oscar gave up and they got along with no problem.
I only kept about an inch or so of gravel on the bottom, because she liked to pick it up and spit it out to re-arrange it; she liked to make little mounds of it. I also had a plastic plant that I let float in the tank and a rock about the size of a golf ball for her to play with. She was always tossing the rock around. Sometimes I even floated a ping pong ball on the surface for her.
Another thing, she hated when the light for the heater came on, and would attack it, I never saw heater guards back then, or heaters like the Stealth Heater that weren't glass, or I would have bought her one. Every once in a while I would wake up in the middle of the night to her grabbing the heater, pulling at it, and letting it bang into the tank wall (luckily no disasters from that), or her tossing her rock around. I also had a laser pointer for my cat, and sometimes would shine it into her tank and she would chase it around the tank.
She used to let me pet her (I started that when she was small, so she would get used to it), and rarely showed me any aggression, except when she was older and I was cleaning her tank. She hated when I did that! She sometimes drew blood (just drop or two), but I read somewhere, that you could slip a knee-hi nylon over your hand and the teeth would "get caught" on that, instead of scraping your wrist/hand. It worked pretty well, but sometimes she still got thru.
I'd love to have another oscar, but "Housing" won't allow another tank. She was definitely "personality plus".
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OSCRS
Aug 11, 2014 0:56:17 GMT -5
Post by goldenpuon on Aug 11, 2014 0:56:17 GMT -5
Wow. I never knew plecos could have such hug personalities! It sounds like you loved her dearly. Who needs a cat or dog when your fish lets you pet it and wakes you up at night by attacking a heater instead of meowing or barking? lol Cashay, it sounds like your oscars have tons of personality too. I had thought my goldfish had tons of personality, reading this, I think they need some lessons from plecos and oscars. lol LOL I tried, they move them! hahahaha Then use bricks Carl Hmm. Bricks might not be such a bad idea! lol Renee
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