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OSCRS
Mar 17, 2014 18:23:23 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Mar 17, 2014 18:23:23 GMT -5
Cashay/Sherry; Your filtration seems more than adequate to me, just make sure you are not cleaning all filters at the same time and that you only rince the sponges in used tank water or de-chlorinated tap water. I have to wonder if your test kits were accurate/out of date? I recommend Beef Heart be fed very sparingly, if at all. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html#beefFrom the above fish nutrition article: "Although still fed to fish and often part of many homemade fish food recipes, Beef Heart is a food source that should be used very sparingly. Although many carnivorous fish enjoy it and it may be a good way to kick start growth in juvenile fish, excessive long term use can add stress to the fish' digestive tract and kidneys, thus lowering resistance to disease and shortening lifespan (which I noted in some side by side fish food comparisons in the 1980s where Oscar Fish that were fed a diet primarily of Beef Heart had CLEARLY shorter life spans and were more prone to infections or other problems such as HITH).
Although lower in fats than most warm blooded animal meats, Beef Heart is still about 18% Saturated Fat. These fats are very difficult for fish to process these fats, especially older fish.
The well known aquatic author Martin A. Moe (my favorite is the "The Marine Aquarium Handbook") states: "Fish are cold blooded and all digestion reactions take place at 70 to 80F, the temp of aquarium water. Thus they may not be able to efficiently digest or use the types of fats present in the flesh of warm blooded animals. They are much better off with the flesh of animals that are similar to their normal prey."
As well the amino acids (which make up proteins) are not ones that are easily utilized by fish."Unfortunately the "dots" are connecting as HITH disease is more of a syndrome, not a disease in the way most persons might think. It leads to scarring, most commonly near the lateral line The use of Wonder Shells can help prevent this too, but I would also definitely reconsider the feeding of the Beef Heart I hope I am not coming off as nit picking your fish, as your other Oscar looks great, rather your parameters and the possible HITH disease caught my attention & I want to help you the best I can Carl
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OSCRS
Mar 29, 2014 20:36:37 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Mar 29, 2014 20:36:37 GMT -5
After a 35% water change my peramiters are not much better. GH 60 KH 0 PH 6.5 Nitrite 1 Nitrate 200. The filters are the 5 pro I bought from EA and the HOB is a Tetra whisper EX 70. I do use wonder shells, I will start changing the water every week if you think it would make a difference. and I don't clean the filters with clean tap water. only if the water has been treated already with Prime. normally I just squeeze them out in the dirty water I just changed. My Oscars dont fight as much as I probably made it sound, most of the time they are so close swimming in sync you would think it was just one fish. They both seem really healthy. I can't see any kind of sickness with them. I have had Ich before in my other tank so I know what that is. So I know that is not going on in the tank. I dont use gravel in the bottom of this tank.so its kept pretty clean I just use the net and clean the poop out. I dont see the scars you do Carl. just the lateral lines. I have had these babies since they were less then an inch long and now they are 8 1/2 inches long. maybe its stretch marks from growing so fast, haha seriously I dont know what is wrong. they seem very healthy, but the water is not right.
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OSCRS
Mar 29, 2014 22:59:53 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Mar 29, 2014 22:59:53 GMT -5
Wow I have been reading a lot of articals on Oscars, I HAVE BEEN FEEDING THEM ALL WRONG! I SHOULD "NOT" BE FEEDING THEM GOLD FISH!!! seems like anything I have been feeding them is not good! I will definitley lay off the beef hearts as of course you were right about that, that is nothing but fat for them.. crap I have a five gallon tank full of feeder gold fish and three full packs of beef hearts, hey..... would my koi fish be ok eating the beef hearts? some where I read they dont have stomachs, the food goes right through them.. dont know how true that is, but I dont want to hurt them either, I have had them for three years now with out any problems { knocking on wood }
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OSCRS
Mar 30, 2014 11:49:47 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Mar 30, 2014 11:49:47 GMT -5
Cashay/Sherry; I do not see anything wrong with your maintenance procedures, they seem perfect from your description I would just change the feeding, as this may be where the problem lies. Also feeding beef heart to koi is even worse than Oscars as their digestive system would have even a more difficult time with it. Goldfish that are clean and gut loaded with Spirulina are an occasional OK treat Resource: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Spirulina20Food.htmlCarl
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OSCRS
Mar 30, 2014 12:47:18 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Mar 30, 2014 12:47:18 GMT -5
well Im glad I read your answer before I fed my koi the beef hearts too.! I was going to so I didnt waste my money . Ok so I also have bought blood worms will they be ok to feed the oscars. I am not going to lie I have fed in the past. But I have two unopened containers of it. Is that ok to feed??? there is no telling how much damage I have already done to my Oscars. Although they seem very healthy on the outside, I can only imagine what I did their insides.. And I do feed all my fish Spirulina 20 that I buy from EA. Smokey ( the black one ) lol looks much better then before doesn't he. I actually think he was running into that holder thing I had for seaweed. I took it out. and so far he doesn't seem like he has any more scratches.
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OSCRS
Apr 1, 2014 18:27:26 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Apr 1, 2014 18:27:26 GMT -5
Smokey the black Tiger Oscar definitely looks better. In fact they both look very healthy in this picture, your water also appears very clear too! Black worms are fine as a part of their diet, just not a major part as these can constipate. But they make a good treat! Carl
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OSCRS
Apr 2, 2014 13:00:54 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 2, 2014 13:00:54 GMT -5
Those guys look so cool. It would be interesting to see them eat, but that's just me being weird. I'm glad you brought your questions to the forum, cause my sister in-law wants to pick up a Tiger Oscar and now I have some idea on how to help her keep the little guy. Thanks for sharing and asking questions!
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OSCRS
Apr 2, 2014 22:32:58 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 2, 2014 22:32:58 GMT -5
I have gotten a bigger tank for these guys, only a 75 gallon but it is much wider then the 55 gallon one. I really cant afford any bigger. But while this one is getting acclamated if that is how you spell that ? any way in the 55 gallon my water parameters are as follows at the moment. GH 180 KH 40 PH 7.0 Nitrite 0.5 Nitrate 80. Only fish in t the tank are the two oscars and 1 pleco ( algea eater ) I did almost a total water change because I took my water and had it tested at petsmart and He said YIKES! I said what?? He said my ammonia is waiting for death!!!! so I bought some stuff he recommended Amquel Plus ammonia detoxifier! and above is my water stats at the smoment. I never knew Oscars were so different then the other fish I have! shew...these guys are a lot of work but also alot of fun. I's not a video but here is a picture once he has it in his mouth Attachments:
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 8:33:02 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 3, 2014 8:33:02 GMT -5
I need some serious help. Next day after a full water change. MY GH is still up to 180. KH 80 Nitrites and Nitrates are slowly rising again also, What is going on even with a tank that is pretty much bare??? Carl what do you recommend for HITH syndrome / Diease??
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 8:53:35 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 3, 2014 8:53:35 GMT -5
Cashay/Sherry; Your filtration seems more than adequate to me, just make sure you are not cleaning all filters at the same time and that you only rince the sponges in used tank water or de-chlorinated tap water. I have to wonder if your test kits were accurate/out of date? I recommend Beef Heart be fed very sparingly, if at all. Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Quality_Fish_Food.html#beefFrom the above fish nutrition article: "Although still fed to fish and often part of many homemade fish food recipes, Beef Heart is a food source that should be used very sparingly. Although many carnivorous fish enjoy it and it may be a good way to kick start growth in juvenile fish, excessive long term use can add stress to the fish' digestive tract and kidneys, thus lowering resistance to disease and shortening lifespan (which I noted in some side by side fish food comparisons in the 1980s where Oscar Fish that were fed a diet primarily of Beef Heart had CLEARLY shorter life spans and were more prone to infections or other problems such as HITH).
Although lower in fats than most warm blooded animal meats, Beef Heart is still about 18% Saturated Fat. These fats are very difficult for fish to process these fats, especially older fish.
The well known aquatic author Martin A. Moe (my favorite is the "The Marine Aquarium Handbook") states: "Fish are cold blooded and all digestion reactions take place at 70 to 80F, the temp of aquarium water. Thus they may not be able to efficiently digest or use the types of fats present in the flesh of warm blooded animals. They are much better off with the flesh of animals that are similar to their normal prey."
As well the amino acids (which make up proteins) are not ones that are easily utilized by fish."Unfortunately the "dots" are connecting as HITH disease is more of a syndrome, not a disease in the way most persons might think. It leads to scarring, most commonly near the lateral line The use of Wonder Shells can help prevent this too, but I would also definitely reconsider the feeding of the Beef Heart I hope I am not coming off as nit picking your fish, as your other Oscar looks great, rather your parameters and the possible HITH disease caught my attention & I want to help you the best I can Carl
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 8:56:53 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 3, 2014 8:56:53 GMT -5
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 8:58:51 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 3, 2014 8:58:51 GMT -5
Are you kidding me? I dont take it that way at all, I need your input and all your experiences, thats why I come to you and all others to ask! Im a need to know person and I only come to the best! Im learning from you. and have a lot to learn! Clearly I dont know how to add a qoute!
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 9:57:03 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Apr 3, 2014 9:57:03 GMT -5
I need some serious help. Next day after a full water change. MY GH is still up to 180. KH 80 Nitrites and Nitrates are slowly rising again also, What is going on even with a tank that is pretty much bare??? Carl what do you recommend for HITH syndrome / Diease?? A GH of 180 is fine. A KH of 80 is better than 40 for pH stability Are you using the same filters as your smaller tank? What was your ammonia level when tested for you? For HITH, Metrondizole is excellent, but often just making some changes such as you already have by removing Beef Heart from the diet. Gut loading feeder fish, worms, or soaking frozen foods in a Spirulina 20 or similar food can help too. Wonder Shells, including medicated version can help, but I believe you already use these. BTW, Wonder Shells will bring up GH, often above 300 ppm From the Aquarium Chemistry; Suggestions Section: "*A KH of anywhere from 80 to 150 is generally good and this can be maintained with products such as Sea Chem Alkaline Buffer. If tap water is high pH/KH I would recommend using 10-20% Reverse Osmosis Water and/or products such as Frog Moss or Mango/Drift Wood to counter the high pH/KH. If your water source KH is low (tap water, etc.), adding buffers to your tap or other water source to bring it up to the desired KH should be performed with every water change.
Small amounts of KH buffers will likely need to be added in intervals in between water changes based on KH tests.
*GH is best between 150- 300, although this can be misleading in that CaCO3+ (& other positive mineral ions) can be depleted and your GH still reads high. The use of Wonder Shells or the slow drip addition of powdered or liquid mineral supplements such as SeaChem Replenish can help with this (simply adding these liquid or dry mineral supplements on a regular basis can work well too). 1-5% water changes daily can help as well provided your water source has these important mineral cations. If salt is necessary with lower pH mixed aquariums, I generally just use water softener salt or any plain salt."Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#suggestionsBTW, I fixed your quote I appreciate your comments too! Carl
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 10:59:44 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 3, 2014 10:59:44 GMT -5
OH so the Higher the GH and KH the better? wy was I thinking they needed to be low? ( im an air head hehe ) And he didn't say the # the ammonia was he just said it was pretty much death! he had a bottle or should I say a jug that was $24 but he gave it to me for 11 but I took it for future uses in all my tanks. BTW all my comments are the truth how I feel. I wouldnt have been able to keep fish if it wasnt for you, All of you with your advise. I owe it all to SusieQ for bringing me in! and yes same filters as the 55 gallon.
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OSCRS
Apr 3, 2014 12:17:48 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Apr 3, 2014 12:17:48 GMT -5
OH so the Higher the GH and KH the better? wy was I thinking they needed to be low? Not quite just "higher", but between 80 to 150 KH will allow for stability without too high a pH for your Oscars which are a generally a lower pH, KH fish. As an example I would not recommend a KH of 300 for your Oscars. For GH, this is a wider window, but you have to get really high such as 500 to see issues with respiration. However the importance of GH is that essential mineral ions are found in your GH, but the problem is your GH measurement is not an accurate measurement for these mineral ions (Cations to be specific). But I can say that the lower you are the less likely to have these mineral Cations in the same way a smaller auto battery with be discharged much more quickly than a larger battery. From the Chemistry article again (positive mineral ions section): "Depletion of Positive Ions Think of it this way; a storage battery "works" only when a positive and a negative electrode are present to maintain an electrical current. When the positive ion charged plates become exhausted, the battery is no longer any good until recharged. In a lead/acid batteries essentially lead (Pb) and lead oxide (PbO2) are changed to lead(II) sulfate (PbSO) in the discharged state (exhausted positive ions), HOWEVER the lead is still present (as with calcium in an aquarium) in a discharged state.
Water changes and additional supplements are generally necessary to replenish these mineral ions (cations). Using the car battery as an example again, when re-charging, a 12 volt battery will show a charge of up to 14 volts in a 12 volt battery shortly after and at the completion of a charge, this is similar to the high GH (often over 400) with the use of many methods of adding mineral electrolytes such as Wonder Shells."Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumKH.html#depletion Considering you used your seasoned filters and the care you have proved as you outlined in this forum thread, I have to question whether the ammonia was "death", which is why having a reasonably accurate number would be more helpful Thanks again, the positive feedback is much appreciated. I also appreciate SusieQ (aka Lori) fro bringing you in. I do miss seeing her here much, but I know she is very busy with her Betta Show club Carl
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OSCRS
Apr 4, 2014 10:40:43 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 4, 2014 10:40:43 GMT -5
I'm picking up that Tiger Oscar today. This has been a great thread to follow
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OSCRS
Apr 4, 2014 11:45:38 GMT -5
Post by cashay on Apr 4, 2014 11:45:38 GMT -5
Your going to love them. It funny though I had put this flat rock in the tank yesterday for some decor and it must have been making them mad! they were both biting it and vibrting at it. I woke up this morning and it was moved almost to the middle of the tank. so dont plan on having the tank the way you like it. hehe they are going to put things the way they want it LOL once they get big enough! And mine grew really fast IMO.
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OSCRS
Apr 4, 2014 12:24:46 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 4, 2014 12:24:46 GMT -5
Your going to love them. It funny though I had put this flat rock in the tank yesterday for some decor and it must have been making them mad! they were both biting it and vibrting at it. I woke up this morning and it was moved almost to the middle of the tank. so dont plan on having the tank the way you like it. hehe they are going to put things the way they want it LOL once they get big enough! And mine grew really fast IMO. Yea, this guy is getting his own tank! Lucky Im setting up the tank for my sister in-law. She just wants one, but she might want to get a pair so they have some company Im excited to get to know the type of fish. Yours keep sounding like they have their own personalities .
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OSCRS
Apr 4, 2014 15:25:13 GMT -5
Post by Carl on Apr 4, 2014 15:25:13 GMT -5
Yea, this guy is getting his own tank! Lucky Im setting up the tank for my sister in-law. She just wants one, but she might want to get a pair so they have some company Im excited to get to know the type of fish. Yours keep sounding like they have their own personalities . Keep in mind that what might start out as a pair, may end up as a single, often because the pair turned out to be both males or even both femals. I have a Red Parrot that was brought in as a pair, it turned out to be the same sex (female), and one killed off the other Carl
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OSCRS
Apr 4, 2014 18:14:36 GMT -5
Post by devonjohnsgard on Apr 4, 2014 18:14:36 GMT -5
Yea, this guy is getting his own tank! Lucky Im setting up the tank for my sister in-law. She just wants one, but she might want to get a pair so they have some company Im excited to get to know the type of fish. Yours keep sounding like they have their own personalities . Keep in mind that what might start out as a pair, may end up as a single, often because the pair turned out to be both males or even both femals. I have a Red Parrot that was brought in as a pair, it turned out to be the same sex (female), and one killed off the other Carl oh man that puts a whole new prescriptive on it.
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