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Post by missdiane on Jan 7, 2014 14:50:31 GMT -5
HI AND HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL. TWO WEEKS AGO THE FILTER IN MY 20 GALLON STOPPED FOR SEVEAL HOURS. I TESTED THE WATER FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND THE PARAMETERS WERE FINE - 0 AMMONIA, 0 NITRITES, 15 NITRATES (API LIQUID KIT). A WEEK LATERMY MALE BETTA (VERY HEALTHY) DIED OVERNIGHT. NO SIGN OF ILLNESS. WAS EATING FINE, ACTIVE UNTIL THE LAST NIGHT. DIDN'T EAT, SAT ON A CATAPPA LEAF. DEAD IN THE MORNING. NEXT DAY THE NITRATE ROSE TO 100. I DID 40% WATER CHANGE. DID 25% THE NEXT DAY AS NITRATE REMINED HIGH. VACUMNED WELL SINCE THEN I'VE LOST 5 GUPPIES AND 2 ZEBRA DANIOS. THEY ARE FINE ONE MINUTE, THEN BEGIN TO SWIM VERTICALLY AND DEAD THE NEXT DAY. I DID NOTICE WITH 3 OF THE GUPPIES THAT ONE SIDE FIN SEEMED TO TURN WHITISH & BECOME DISABLED. THE GILL NEAR THE FIN WAS ALSO A BIT RED. PRIOR TO THS ALL FISH IN TANK WERE 100% HEALTHY. TODAY NITRATES AT 20, EVERYTHING ELSE IN PARAMETERS IS FINE. TANK HS BEEN RUNNING MOR THAN 2 YEARS.& ALSO HAS WONDER SHELL AND CATAPPA LEAVES I WANT TO TREAT THE TANK - IT SEEMS LIKE ALL INHABITANTS MAY BE INFECTED WITH SOMETHING?  ASO, I HAVE NO TANK TO MOVE SICK GUPPIES TO. AND IT SEEMS THEY ARE ALL GETTING ILL DAY BY DAY I HAVE KORDON ICK ATTACK - FURAN 2 - KANAPLEX - MARYCYN 2 THIS IS THE PROBLEM - TANK CONTAINS BELOVED DOJO LOACH - 3 CORY CATFISH - NERITE/ MYSTERY SNAILS PLEASE HELP SOON!!!! THANKS MISS DIANE |
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Post by Carl on Jan 7, 2014 16:56:01 GMT -5
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Post by missdiane on Jan 7, 2014 19:11:14 GMT -5
About 3 weeks ago, I did add 2 walmart guppies - 1 died the next day. I'm thinking that was the villain. I can't find out anywhere if Furan 2 & Kanaplex will harm my Dojo loach. Also what about the live plants & biological filter. No temp. drops - everything in the tank has been stable
2 more guppies dead in the last hour - 1 remaining (the other walmart guy) ... S NITRATES nitrites 0
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Post by Carl on Jan 7, 2014 20:55:57 GMT -5
I suggested the Furan 2 & Kanaplex as these are safe, the ParaGuard is a bit more harsh but safe in 1/2 dose for your Loach and Cory Cat. The Furan will be hard on the live plants, but I think stopping this is more important. Likely the guppy from Walmart was the villain. Make sure in the future to follow the steps I outline in "Aquarium Disease Prevention" for introducing new fish which includes at least a medicated bath Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.htmlIn the meantime please follow the suggestions I made earlier in this thread. Good Luck!!!!  Carl |
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Post by missdiane on Jan 7, 2014 22:19:56 GMT -5
thanks Carl! I actually did follow your directions on the site, but apparently it wasn't enough! Last question - use the package amounts for a 20 gl. for BOTH the furan & Kanaplex?
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Post by Carl on Jan 8, 2014 11:02:28 GMT -5
Yes, it is important to use both Kanaplex and Furan 2 at full strength to work correctly.
Did you quarantine or give a Fish Bath to the new fish from Walmart prior to introduction to the tank?
If so what did you use?
A Medicated Wonder shell used for 5-7 days (or until it dissolves) after introduction is also suggested.
Carl
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Post by missdiane on Jan 8, 2014 11:52:18 GMT -5
morning - OK - 4 measures Kanaplex added to tank last night (20 gl) 2 packets Furan 2 added this morning. will follow through as directed. Can you explain why we use a full dose of 2 meds rather than 1/2 of each???
Also I had the Walmart fish in Meth. Blue and salt for 24 hours. I'm watching my 5 gal. tank as well because a female platy was bought the same day as the guppy - say a prayer for no disease - i put Kordon ich attack in the 5 gal. yesterday to start prventative treatment?
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jan 8, 2014 13:29:09 GMT -5
morning - OK - 4 measures Kanaplex added to tank last night (20 gl) 2 packets Furan 2 added this morning. will follow through as directed. Can you explain why we use a full dose of 2 meds rather than 1/2 of each??? Also I had the Walmart fish in Meth. Blue and salt for 24 hours. I'm watching my 5 gal. tank as well because a female platy was bought the same day as the guppy - say a prayer for no disease - i put Kordon ich attack in the 5 gal. yesterday to start prventative treatment? I'm sorry to read about your losses. I hope you are holding up ok. When treating, use the combination Carl suggested. He said there is a relationship between the two meds that needs to work together. For your future fishy friends, I would suggest a quarantine or a fish bath every time. Carl would do this for every fish he introduced into any tank and afterwards used a medicated wonder shell. |
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Post by missdiane on Jan 8, 2014 15:40:45 GMT -5
Nice picture Devonjohnsgard! Thanks for caring. It's been craziness with fish since summer when I lost so many due to AC failure.
then I went through months of trying to save "Chance" the Betta & finally lost him. Now this tank just through me off completely. My beautiful, active tank now has 4 bottom dwellers, 1 lone guppy, 2 white-skirt Tetras (who I've never cared much about) I can't buy anymore fish at this time so I guess we'll see what happens with the meds. My Dojo dopesn't seem so happy about it > is usually extremely active day & night. Now he's just laying there...heartbreaking
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Jan 8, 2014 18:51:49 GMT -5
Nice picture Devonjohnsgard! Thanks for caring. It's been craziness with fish since summer when I lost so many due to AC failure. then I went through months of trying to save "Chance" the Betta & finally lost him. Now this tank just through me off completely. My beautiful, active tank now has 4 bottom dwellers, 1 lone guppy, 2 white-skirt Tetras (who I've never cared much about) I can't buy anymore fish at this time so I guess we'll see what happens with the meds. My Dojo dopesn't seem so happy about it > is usually extremely active day & night. Now he's just laying there...heartbreaking misdiane. I know you have battling for sometime. I'm sure it's wearing but it looks like you have a big heart, so I understand all the effort. I don't even want to imaging having a mature tank and years down the road have sudden problems. It would be heart breaking, just like you say. The only thing it can be is a lesson learned. I was heart broken about two weeks ago when our year old bird escaped and flew off  I spread the entire day trying to convince him to come out of a 100 ft tree. He just sat up there signing away. We were never able to get him. It made me sick for days afterward. So, I feel for you. Keep doing what you can. I guess one pro that comes out of all this work is you will be a real fish professional and maybe you can save someone else or your own fishy friends down the road. Thanks for the compliment on the picture. ProBoards just upgraded so I figured I would make one. It kinda looks like me so it makes me laugh. Hope this all passes. |
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Post by Carl on Jan 8, 2014 18:54:23 GMT -5
Miss Diane; From Aquarium Medications Part 2; Antibiotics www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html"Nitrofurazone is not Skin absorbed, so use of this Bactericidal for systemic infections is not recommended.
However Aquatronics and myself have found that Nitrofurazone combines well with Kanamycin (which is skin absorbing), and are very complimentary to each other!
When Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone are combined these medications form a synergistic combination that is not totally understood, but what is known is that often leaving one or the other out of the equation or not using both at full strength often results in failure in treatments of stubborn/advanced bacterial infections such as Columnaris.
"Also as Devon noted, a bath and preventative treatment is essential for all new fish In my aquarium maintenance business, even though I only provided fish from my own store to service clients, which these fish had already been quarantined, I STILL PERFORMED 20-30 minute bath with all new fish to my service customers. In other words I did not trust even my own fish when transferring them to clients. I then also treated the tank with preventive medications, usually a Medicated Wonder Shell References: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html#quarantinewww.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html#medicatedCarl |
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Post by missdiane on Jan 20, 2014 16:10:46 GMT -5
OK - I'M BACK. THIS HAS BEEN CRAZIER THAN CRAZY! EVEN WITH 10 DAYS OF THE ANTIBIOTIC TREATMENT & WATER CHANGES, ALL FISH EXCEPT DOJO, CORY CATS, AND 1 LEOPARD DANIO DIED. THE DANIO HAS SINCE DEVELPED A HUGE TUMOR ON HIS SIDE BUT IS ACTIVE & EATING SO I'M WATCHING HIM. THIS IS THE BIZARRE PART OF THE STORY - ABOUT MIDWAY INTO TREATMENT ON THE 20 GALLON TANK, THE SAME THING STARTED IN MY 5 GALLON TANK. FIRST A YOUNG HEALTHY MYSTERY SNAIL DIED, THEN MY PREGNANT PLATY DIED. SAME SYMPTOMS AS THE 20 GALLON (VERTICAL SWIMMING & DEATH SHORTLY AFTER, HIGH NITRATE) THE PREGNANT PLATY WAS ALSO VERY HEALTHY AND READY TO GIVE BIRTH. SHE LOST THE FRY OVERNIGHT, HID IN THE PLANTS FOR ABOUT 3 DAYS, THEN DIED. NOW THE "PRBLEM" SEEMS TO BE INFECTING MY 10 GALLON. oNE DWARF BLUE GOURAMI DIED QUICKLY & THE OTHER STARTED THE VERTICAL SWIM 2 DAYS AGO AND IS NOW LAYING ON A MOSS BALL. SHE STILL EATS WELL. THERE ARE BOTIA STRIATA IN THE TANK AS WELL & THEY SEEM UNAFFECED. THE ONLY THING MY TANKS HAVE IN COMMON IS THE WATER. I'VE BEEN USING AGED TAP WATER WITH 25% RO FOR QUITE A WHILE. NEVADA WATER IS TERRIBLE AND IT'S KNOWN THAT THERE IS ARSENIC IN IT. WE DON'T DRINK IT - HUMANS OR PETS! I CALLED THE WATER COMPANY AND THEY SAID THERE WERE NO CHANGES IN THE WATER. I DOUBT THEY WOULD TELL ME IF THERE WAS. I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN THIS PROBLEM IS RELATED TO THE WATER. OVER THE PAST 2 DAYS, I'VE BEEN CHANGING TO A HIGHER RATIO OF RO WATER. I'M AT ABOUT 50-50 NOW. SHOULD I GO AS FAR AS 100% RO? OR TRY TO STAY WITH 50%? WHAT MINERALS DO I NEED TO BUY TO ADD IF I USE 50% OR 100% RO? I DO WATER CHANGES TWICE WEEKLY ON MY 5 GALLON & SMALLER TANKS, AND ONCE PER WEEK ON THE 10 & 20 GALLONS. USING A LOT OF RO GETS A BIT EXPENSIVE - CAN I DO WATER CHAGES EVERY 2 WEEKS? PLEASE HELP! THIS IS BECOMING VERY DEPRESING!
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Post by Carl on Jan 20, 2014 16:55:56 GMT -5
Sorry to read about your ongoing problems Honestly, I do NOT think it is the water, as these are not the correct symptoms. More than likely you had cross contamination, which is quite easy to do. This is why in my aquarium service days I would clean all equipment in Potassium Permanganate or Bleach prior to my next customer. PP if there was no known problem, and bleach if there was a known problem. You may need to go "nuclear" with a combination of ParaGuard combing with Kanaplex and Furan 2 in your main display tanks along with continued baths that include Kanaplex, Furan 2, & Methylene Blue A clear picture of any fish prior to death might be helpful too Has your aquarium temperatures had any recent changes in temperature either up or down? Your fish are displaying some symptoms of Ichthyophonus (NOT Ich) if I am understanding correctly, but this is a difficult disease to diagnose and treat Reference: www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/05/ichthyophonus-in-fish.htmlOthers suggested reading: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.htmlFollowing as many steps in the above article as possible WILL help, at least in the future. this also includes UV Sterilization, although this is difficult for a tank of your size In particular, make sure to follow the steps in this section of the "Aquarium Disease Prevention" article, including those for cross contamination www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Disease.html#buy_fishCarl |
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Post by missdiane on Jan 20, 2014 23:27:16 GMT -5
will do Carl - thanks
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Post by missdiane on Jan 23, 2014 22:07:22 GMT -5
Hi there! OK it's been 5 days & no deaths in any of the 3 tanks. How long should I wait before adding some new fish? Sure don't want any more problems!
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Post by Carl on Jan 24, 2014 11:07:29 GMT -5
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Post by babygeige on Feb 1, 2014 14:56:44 GMT -5
Wow, so sorry to read of all your troubles, missdiane! I hope the surviving fish are holding up well. I would definitely be patient and wait a while before adding new fish.
It's a pain sometimes, but overall I'm very glad I got a 5 gallon tank to use as a QT tank for new fish. It doesn't have to be fancy. Just a sponge filter, a heater (if needed in your neck of the woods) and some fake plants/decor for shy or scared fish to hide. I don't even have a proper light for it - I just use a desk lamp.
It's also handy when you've got sick or injured fish.
Good luck! Keep us posted.
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Post by missdiane on Feb 3, 2014 15:48:36 GMT -5
Still no more death in either tank BUT the nitrates in the 20 gl. still going up to 100. I'm using 50% RO water combined with tap. The tap/RO water mixture tests at 7.4 PH, 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates. When added to the tank, I've been testing again after about 2 hours & the reading is the same. However, within 5 days the PH is rising to almost 8.0, ammonia & nitrites remain at 0, nitrates back up to 100. I really don't get this & I'm about to give up
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Post by devonjohnsgard on Feb 3, 2014 17:53:51 GMT -5
missdiane, I'm sorry for all the struggles. Don't give up, I know you can do it. And you have a big heart that takes in many little fishy friends that not many people would want. What type of filtration are you using? And what for your substrate? I'm sorry if you let us know before, but I can't seem to remember. Raising of nitrates is usually caused by high bio-load. It could be from over feeding. It could be from the bio that in the substrate and a number of other things. Here is one of Carl's articles that specifically nitrates. www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/07/aquarium-nitrates.htmlI'm not personally sure it this was the cause of your illness, but I know high nitrates could cause respiration problems in fish, lower or eliminate the ability to breed, resist disease, and lower activity of aquarium inhabitants. It could have played into the cause. I know you have been getting a lot of articles, but this will help look at the issue as a whole and get the problem resolved faster. I hope this is able to help. This one goes out to all by fish recusing pals! The world needs more people like you! |
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Post by missdiane on Feb 3, 2014 19:29:27 GMT -5
thanks for the encouragement - have read the article but will read again. The 20 gal. is 2 years old. Planted tank with gravel substrate. The only remaining fish are 2 weather loaches and 3 small cory catfish. The tank was never overstocked. they eat twice a day - either one algae wafer to share or some flake, or a leaf of spinach or freeze dried shrimp - other than the algae wafer, they only get what they can eat in 1-2 minutes. they fast 1 day per week. I have a Penguin 150 filter - I removed the malfunctioning, worthless, bio wheel over a year ago. There is also a filter max 2 pre filter on the tank. I use wonder shell and catappa leaf as well
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I spread the entire day trying to convince him to come out of a 100 ft tree. He just sat up there signing away. We were never able to get him. It made me sick for days afterward. So, I feel for you. Keep doing what you can. I guess one pro that comes out of all this work is you will be a real fish professional and maybe you can save someone else or your own fishy friends down the road. 
