Tetras sick again

[elizabethfclark]

I'm afraid that my serpae tetras (the subject of the previous "sick tetras" thread) may be experiencing a recurrence of the same illness. There are seven of them in a 10g tank, and the water parameters are close to perfect (pH 7.0, ammonia and nitrites 0 ppm, nitrates 10 ppm, KH 50 ppm, and GH high thanks to Wonder Shell). There are a number of live plants in the tank, but no other fish.

Of the seven, two or three have white-looking lips (like a milk mustache), and one is kind of pale (in comparison to others), has been hiding sometimes, and has a minuscule white thing on its lip that looks like a hair. All seem to be behaving normally and are interested in food, although they sometimes put food in their mouths and then spit it back out.

This has been an on-and-off problem since I got them, and the white-ish lips have never gone away completely, but the return of the actual hair-like stuff worries me. However, whatever this is, they've now been living with it since the middle of May.

Should I treat? I am leaning towards trying Pimafix, since this does not seem to be a severe case at the moment, but I also have Kanaplex and Triple Sulfa on hand.

I do have a quarantine tank, but I don't think they're sick enough to merit the stress of catching and moving them.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Carl]

Sorry to read about the reacurrence of the problem

Pimafix might be OK if a bath were performed as well that includes salt, Methylene Blue and Kanaplex

In reading back over your other thread, it appears that the Medicated Wonder Shell did the trick, is this correct?
While not the strongest of treatments, this too might also be considered, but not with the Pimafix, but it is OK along with the bath.

If the problem persists, Furan 2 can also be added to the bath

A very strong in tank treatment would be this "Aquatronics" treatment described here:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html#aquatronics

Carl

[elizabethfclark]

They are clearly worse today, so I'm going to try and nip this in the bud.

I'm going to treat them in the main tank, since they've all been exposed and they're the only inhabitants (and catching them is really stressful, both for me and for them!). From Seachem's website, it appears that Kanaplex will not damage plants beyond repair, so I'm going to start with that. Should I also add Furan 2 to the mix? I know it is not great for plants, but I'm mostly worried about getting the fish better.

Should I put salt in the main tank? Should I go ahead and put the medicated wonder shell in, or should I wait until I'm finished with the Kanaplex treatment? Should I lower the temperature? I think the water is OK and there are two filters (sponge and HOB) running on the tank.

I will try catching the two that are the worst so I can give them a bath, but that might be difficult. What are my best options if I'm not able to catch them?

This is so frustrating!! Thank you for the advice.

[Carl]

Aug 6, 2013 9:30:44 GMT -5 elizabethfclark said:

They are clearly worse today, so I'm going to try and nip this in the bud.

I'm going to treat them in the main tank, since they've all been exposed and they're the only inhabitants (and catching them is really stressful, both for me and for them!). From Seachem's website, it appears that Kanaplex will not damage plants beyond repair, so I'm going to start with that. Should I also add Furan 2 to the mix? I know it is not great for plants, but I'm mostly worried about getting the fish better.

Furan 2 mixed with Kanamycin os often a very good combination for symptoms such as this, however you are correct that Furan 2 is more 'hard' on plants than Kanaplex

Should I put salt in the main tank?

Yes, but no more than 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons for now (it can be increased later)

Should I go ahead and put the medicated wonder shell in, or should I wait until I'm finished with the Kanaplex treatment?

After finished as a follow up would be best since I would not recommend mixing

Should I lower the temperature? I think the water is OK and there are two filters (sponge and HOB) running on the tank.

Yes, 75 F would be best

I will try catching the two that are the worst so I can give them a bath, but that might be difficult. What are my best options if I'm not able to catch them?

A medicated bath has always made a big difference in my treatments, IF it can be done.
Leaving the fish in a "Breeder net" males re-capture easier.

If not possible, simply go with the above in tank treatment.

Carl

[elizabethfclark]

Thanks, Carl. I can always count on you.

I think I'm seeming improvement after just one dose of the KanaPlex. Fish are more active, and white stuff seems to be receding on one. I did add salt as directed and lower the temperature. I'll try to capture the two showing symptoms tomorrow and give them a bath.

Should I put in the Medicated Wonder Shell and add chemical filtration back as soon as I am done treating? Or should I wait a few days?

[Carl]

Your welcome!

I would suggest a 25% water change, running some carbon for 24-48 hours, then adding the Medicated Wonder Shell

Carl

[elizabethfclark]

Thanks, Carl! I'll keep you updated.

[elizabethfclark]

Well, this illness seems to be a bit of a mystery. I've been treating with salt and lowered temperature since August 6. I did a full round of Kanaplex, which didn't ultimately seem to make much of a difference either way, and then followed up with a MWS (again, doesn't seem to have helped or hurt). Water parameters are good. One fish has a tiny bit of white stuff on its mouth (hasn't grown or disappeared during treatment). A couple others seem to have slightly white lips. All are acting normal. One or two of them might have lost a little bit of weight, but it is hard to tell. At the moment, I'm trying to return the tank to a normal state (filter did suffer somewhat during treatment). After that, what do I do? Do I just see if it goes away? Do I wait for it to get worse? Do I try a different treatment? Advice greatly appreciated!

[devonjohnsgard]

I would make the suggestion to wait for a little while and wait for the problem to get worse or better. If it gets worse, I would suggest doing the fish bath with the stronger medication like Carl stated earlier in the thread. It's been a while since you started treatment, so I would give a little break.

[Carl]

Sept 3, 2013 11:02:50 GMT -5 devonjohnsgard said:

I would make the suggestion to wait for a little while and wait for the problem to get worse or better. If it gets worse, I would suggest doing the fish bath with the stronger medication like Carl stated earlier in the thread. It's been a while since you started treatment, so I would give a little break.

I agree!

One important point, and that is assuming Columnaris, and that is that the best treatment is Furazone WITH Kanaplex, not one or the other.
I honestly do not know why, nor have I read a good research paper as to why, but there is something about this combo that works. I can verify this with my results as well as research I have read too.

So make sure to perform the combo, as well as the baths

From:
www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

"By using broad-spectrum treatments such as a Furan Two & Kanamycin COMBINATION against diseases with similar symptoms affecting fish, precise identification of specific bacterial or fungal pathogens causing the disease that often display similar symptoms may not be absolutely necessary.
Please note that the combination of BOTH Kanamycin AND Nitrofurazone MUST be used for effect against true flavobacterium columnare infections, otherwise the minimum inhibitory concentration (MIC) values of these medications individually is too low."

Sorry to read this problem is continuing

Carl

[elizabethfclark]

Thanks for the input. I will give them a little break from treatment (although continuing with salt and lowered temperatures is ok, right?) and see if it gets better or worse. If worse, I'll try the Furan Two and Kanamycin combination and the baths.

Ugh, I just want to be done with this!

[Carl]

(although continuing with salt and lowered temperatures is ok, right?)

Yes, this should be fine as long as the salt levels are not above 1 tablespoon per 5 gallon for an extended period of time for your Tetras (about two weeks according to according to a Univ. of Auburn study)

Carl

[elizabethfclark]

Thanks, Carl. I've been keeping them at 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons (or a little less) during treatment, but I am slowly lowering that amount through water changes.

The one little guy that is actually showing symptoms doesn't really seem to be getting either better or worse. The others continue to have slightly white lips but nothing more.

[Carl]

Sept 9, 2013 9:12:23 GMT -5 elizabethfclark said:

The one little guy that is actually showing symptoms doesn't really seem to be getting either better or worse

Can you take a close up picture of this guy?

Carl

[elizabethfclark]

I have been trying, but I only got abysmal pictures with my phone. I will try again tomorrow with a real camera!