|
Post by Carl on May 10, 2013 9:19:15 GMT -5
It is OK to lose some of the Wonder Shell to the water, no difference than leaving a Wonder Shell to dissolve in the water
Good point/question?
Either way is is nice to see a positive response to your care/treatment
Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jun 4, 2013 20:03:00 GMT -5
Thanks Carl and Babygeige for the response and helpful input. In answer to whether Puon got stuck in a filter intake and managed to pull free, I think it is entirely possible that Puon got caught somewhere and escaped although I have no idea where. None of the objects ihave sharp edges and have never had a goldish caught in the aquarium's filter that I have seen (though it has been responsible for some fin tears on some of the goldfish in the tank with super long fins when they get too close though). Sorry I haven't been on lately. Between beginning to search for my own place, having my plans for continuing to attend college for a Bachelor's degree, tons of car trouble with a used car I bought, trying to find a job, fish deaths, and computer trouble (no big issue with my computer as it turns out), I have been in over my head and have not had the energy and often little time to go on the forums lately. Luckily, I finally got some time to go on and hopefully things will start to calm down a bit. Unfortunately, Puon died a couple weeks ago about an hour before midnight. It started going to the bottom and sitting there. It stopped eating less than a day before it died. As well, French Fry, the 4 1/2 year old guppy born at my house died a few days after Puon. He died overnight (as all of my guppies seem to). He had a large tumor on his tail and was overdue for a water change though the water tested fine repeatedly. He had been poorly on and off (less interest in food, hanging out near the top or bottom, much less active) for a few weeks before he died. As well, it look like Foneme is not going to last much longer. It is extremely emaciated, has a humped back (not curved as far as I know), and has been showing little appetite and weakness. It has been deteriorating quite a bit over the past 3-4 months and right now, feel kind of bad for blanketing the tank to help it recover. I know I am delaying the inevitable. Last, I have caught Nemo, which I have had 7 years and has no physical problems laying on the bottom before it starts begging when I come in the room every few days. I think it may pass soon too, but blanketing the tank may help destress and bring it back to its normal self since I see nothing externally wrong with it. Last, Alden, a fish with musclar degeneration (from advanced age) appears to be losing more muscle and think I am noticing the beginning of a hump in its back. I have had Alden since November of 2005 roughly, a few months longer than Nemo. I expect it to die in the near future. Renee
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jun 5, 2013 10:50:15 GMT -5
Sorry for the loss of your long time pet fish I am also sorry to read about some of the other difficulties such as your car and job search, although I know my daughter is very discouraged too as she has yet to find a job. Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jun 5, 2013 15:15:38 GMT -5
Thanks for your condolances. It has been pretty rough with losing the fish, though I am handling it a lot better now than when I had to put down Oranda and am accepting it.
I understand her feeling! Getting a job is hard despite the better(ish) economy now. :/ As for the car, lesson learned about buying a used car with only an pretty thorough inspection without having a trushworthy expert give it a super thorough look all over!
Renee
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jun 5, 2013 16:00:30 GMT -5
I understand her feeling! Getting a job is hard despite the better(ish) economy now. :/ As for the car, lesson learned about buying a used car with only an pretty thorough inspection without having a trushworthy expert give it a super thorough look all over! Renee The economy here still stinks, plus with a high older population, many who were going to retire have been forced into the job market, often competing for entry level jobs with younger persons such as persons of your age As for the car, do not be too hard on yourself there either, many persons first car or two (or three) are not all that great, it is what you can afford. My concern for you as a young lady is that your car does strand you in a dangerous place. My first two cars and to some degree third car were total junk, but that was all I could afford. I kept tools and fixed them on the road all the time, I even only could afford to go to the wrecking yard to remove tires off a wrecked car for $5 each (I could not afford new tires). One time I was on a date to Disneyland and I came out at nearly midnight only to find a car that would not start, I worked on it til 2 am all the while worrying about what her Dad would say, especially since he was an LAPD Officer/Commander (there were no cell phones when I was a teenager) Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jun 28, 2013 19:43:13 GMT -5
I'm continuing to have problems with my goldfish in the 40 gallon unfortunately. I am very sad to these all of this happen but have accepted it to some degree and am taking it quite a bit easier after I had to put down Oranda and Puon died. Video of goldfish in 40 gallon. I explain a bit in the video too so you may want to turn your computer's sound on. s457.photobucket.com/user/goldenpuon/media/100_5418_zps26ad697a.mp4.htmlAztec is seeming weak and seems like its struggling a bit to swim. I got Aztec at the same time as Oranda (now deceased) and Foneme who is still hanging on but not for much longer probably. Aztec seems to have the very beginning of a curve in its spine (hard to tell for sure at this point) and is tipping a bit. I doubt there is anything I can do, but I am suspicious still about the reason the fish's spines keep curving or getting deformed. Also, Nemo has lost weight (not super thin but maybe a little bit) and has been on the bottom every so often (resting I think) for the past couple months. This is not just at night when it sleeps. I also caught Hansel, a white goldfish in the tank who is beginning to turn orange in a couple places after all these years, resting on the bottom for the first time today. Nemo - fish closest to the camera.Also, Wickren and Salyme appear to have fin rot again after 6 months or so of being free of it. It is mild at this point. Would treating with a wonder shell in this case be sufficient or would treating with something strong like triple Sulfa be advisable? (The goldfish have had fin rot repeatedly in the past year and a couple months and I have treated them with Triple Sulfa and more during this time). However, I don't want to overtreat. I used to never treat my goldfish. I started doing so more when they started getting old and getting things. (I'm not sure if that's helped or hurt more.)Picture of Salyme with mild fin rotAlso, Alden is hanging in there or doing quite awful and its back is humping (not sure if the spine is curving too). It si very uncooridinated as it swims. Not uncoordinated as in dying, but from lack of muscle mass due to atrophy. Also, in the picture below, Alden has some light pigmentation on its torso. This started off as a slightly reddish color a few years ago. Now it is quite light. Any idea what this is? I have kind of accepted it as coloration the fish has but come to think of it, it looks a little thicker (not just random coloration). Pictures below. Aztec rear, Alden closest, Kona orange and white fish in the middleAlden is the orange fish turned at an odd angleAlden again. Obviously not doing well... Not in the process of dying despite what it looks like in the pictureLast, I am unsure if Kona has pop-eye or if it is a fish with natural slight bug eyes. Right now, it is not acting out of the ordinary. It has eyes that stuck out more than the other goldfish which I noticed a couple years ago but it has reached the point where it seems abnormal and a cause for concern. I have pictures below and hope it shows well enough. I had trouble getting a front shot. (The fish do not like cameras! lol) Kona left, Alden right. You can see both of Kona's eyes in this picture and how much they stick out.Kona right, Alden left. This is my clearest shot of Kona. It's eye looks a little strange.Kona side viewOnto non-fish-related things, Carl, in response to your last post, I agree for the most part. I have seen a lot of help wanted signs in my area lately, but then again, most are lower pay. Thanks. Though my car may end up needing to be scraped. Is transmission is going bad and I'm getting it check out further along with an air bag problem that has come up. Its still drivable but if the transmission ends up being too expensive (my mom is helping me pay for it), I'mg going to get rid of it before it becomes undriveable. I have a cell phone with me at all times when I drive and plenty of relatives and friends' numbers saved on my phone. Luckily, all of the breakdowns in which the car wouldn't start began started in my driveway. But I agree, that's something to definitely consider. I need to learn more about how to do that! Luckily, my dad is an automachanic (retired and without many tools though). That is an excellent idea btw! I am learning from him a bit as he helps me fix the car when it breaks but the tools and more hands on learning (which I'll have more of I'm sure) are both getting me to the point where I know enough to fix it myself although pretty slowly. Yeah, first cars are typically pretty bad. When I got this car, I was hoping for something that kind of looked like junk on the outside but is in good condition inside. Unfortunately, I got just the opposite in this case. That sounds quite stressful. I hope you didn't get in much trouble! (Nope, just pay phonesback then. ) Renee
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jun 29, 2013 11:21:30 GMT -5
Renee; Alden's pigment change likely is just that based on the period of time, so this is the least of his/her concerns. Honestly, my personal view would be to put Alden down at this point A fish bath with Methylene Blue, salt and nitrofurazone would be a suggestion for the others. Also consider raising the aquarium salt level in the tank about 50% of what you have been or simply adding 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons if you have not been adding salt Also consider soaking the fish food with Kanamycin or Neomycin as per this article: Aquarium Medications 1; Food DeliveryThere is little you can do for the curvature of the spine, sometimes as you too have noted it self corrects with some TLC, but most of the time it is a slow progression. Good nutrition and water parameters are the best prevention and remedy, but little can be done for age, genetics, and internal damage from earlier in his/her life prior to your taking the fish home. BTW Sorry to hear & read about your car troubles It is good you have help so close by and a cell phone. IMHO, while all these electronics we now have can seem to be a leash and/or make life even more demanding and overly fast-paced, I think even the most basic cell phone is a great piece of security to have that I did not have when your age. It sure makes me feel good when my kids go out and have this that they can call me if an activity runs late or something goes wrong. Ditto for you, so please make sure you ALWAYS have your phone with you. Carl
|
|
|
Post by missdiane on Jun 30, 2013 16:49:30 GMT -5
Check natural/health food stores for clove oil
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jul 9, 2013 1:57:46 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the help! It is quite true that Alden's pigment is the least of its concerns. Alden is not going to last all that much longer. Fortunately, it is doing quite a bit better (more active, food obsessed, and much less looking weak) than in the pictures here. My criteria for putting a fish down is not appearence (though a poor appearence almost always correlates with some type of suffering.) It is sad, but I know that it will be in the best thing for the Alden to be put down when its condition worsens again. Luckily, there is some excellent news for the fish in the 40 gallon. I increased the salt by 50%, added a large regular wondershell, and did a couple water changes. Kona's eyes are back to normal (I'm keeping the salt level elevated for 2-3 weeks). Also, the water changes seem to have perked up the fish! Last, the Nitrofurazone seems to have stopped the fin rot on Wickren and Salyme. I believe that one of the main contributers to the fish's problems (besides age and genetics) has been poor Redox due to fewer water changes. I gave the Furon 2 to the fish as directed on the box with an additional 25% water change beforehand. Treated 40 gallons, repeated treatment after 24 hours. Did a second water change and gave a third treatment (this was about 48 hours later, not 24 hours as I should have done according to the box). Then I gave the fish another treatment after another 24 hours (4th dose). It has been 2 1/2 days since I completed treatment. I have not done a 25% water change after or added carbon back into the filter yet (though I'm sure some of the medication has lost its effectiveness by now, hopefully having it in the water extra time has helped). Should I change the water out and add back the carbon now and be done with treatment or do a 50% water change and repeat the course of treatment on the box to make sure the fin rot does not come back? I ordered clove oil which came about 4 days ago. It has been very hard getting myself put down Foneme (as it was with Oranda), but I know putting it off is not helping the fish or myself for that matter. I noticed that Foneme's eyes (beneath the clear growth over them like Oranda had) seemed unusually deep in its head. They looked strange like they were being pushed or under pressure. I realized last night that Foneme's eyes are literally sinking into its head and getting worse and am about to put the fish down right now. (I just came back to my post after capturing Foneme and putting it in with the clove oil) Foneme is not going to sleep. I mixed the clove oil thoroughly with the water. The fish is just very nervous, breathing extremely heavily! I don't want it to die of stress! It has been in at least 15 minutes now. I am aerating the water so the oil stays mixed. I pray it works. Otherwise I'm going to have to resort to boiling or freezing-which is cruel.(quicker than dying slowly of stress but still) I mixed 3 drops of clove oil into about 8 oz of water. I shook it up thoroughly, then adding it to a gallon of water with the fish. I added 4 more drops (probably more due to how fast they came out) with little effect. I am going to let the fish calm down for a few minutes and hope that helps. I am going to wait longer and pray it works. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong but by any chance if anyone is on Everything Aquatic at this very late hour, please help! Thanks. Renee
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jul 9, 2013 2:07:22 GMT -5
Just checked on Foneme. Luckily, the goldfish is lying on its side and appears is pretty unresponsive though its breathing is still very heavy/fast. I added about 4 more drops and mixed them in with a plastic spoon. I'm going to check on Foneme again in 15 minutes and hopefully it will have continued to calm more. I am really going to miss this fish. Carl, I agree cell phones are useful in cases of getting stranded/driving a very unreliable car. I agree that cell phones can make life feel very fast and bombard people with information. This is why I personally have just a plain texting cell phone, not a smart phone. I will! Thanks for your concern! Renee
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jul 9, 2013 13:43:52 GMT -5
Renee; Sorry for your problems euthanizing Foneme I personally do not think the fish suffers with clove oil, even if slow. However the "slow" part is why this popular method is not my favorite either, as I have explained in the past. I am happy to read the water changes, salt, and a Wonder Shell have improved others in the 40 gallon aquarium. Since the fin rot appeared to be mild, I no more treatments are in order. I would change out carbon and water Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jul 9, 2013 18:54:46 GMT -5
The next time I checked on Foneme last night, it was dead though I gave it an hour longer to make sure. Foneme was not stressing from the clove oil (at least mostly not), but because I kept staring at it, moving its container around, and stirring the water in an effort to mix the clove oil in properly. The 3 drops I mixed beforehand right when I started the euthanization process weren't enough and forgot to mix in in the additional drops I added. I believe the fish had so much trouble "falling asleep" at first because it was panicking. Though it takes a while, I'm very happy with the clove oil method providing that most of it stress was from me and freaking out (I'm 90% sure) I just need to remember to mix ALL drips extreme thoroughly in with the water, be patient, and give the fish time. Aerating the water (which I ended up doing) seemed to help it the clove oil mix and stay that way too. I am extremely happy about this and am SO relieved it was taken care of so easily! That treatment was highly effective! Thanks so much Carl! I don't give them any more treatment then and will do that and be sure to maintain my tank better to avoid problems like this. The fishies thank you! Renee
|
|
|
Post by parker002 on Jul 12, 2013 12:02:14 GMT -5
I'm glad your finally finding some emotional relief. I'm sure this was very difficult and I'm sorry that you lost your fish. Keep in mind in the future that the old saying "oil and water don't mix" is a saying for a reason - oil and water don't mix. You actually found one of the easiest ways to emulsify the clove oil, using aeration. The other option is to put a little water in a separate container, whisk the oil in using a fork (just like you would if you were making salad dressing), and then pour the entire contents back into the water the fish is in. At any rate, I'm glad again that you've finally gotten some relief. It had to have been hard.
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jul 17, 2013 9:55:47 GMT -5
Thanks for your feedback and understanding Parker. It means a lot! Very true about that saying. I actually used a fork before I started aerating (only because we were out of spoons lol). Aerating was a good accident then. I didn't think it would help the oil mix in- I used it to give the fish some oxygen to help it destress a bit since it was in a 1 gallon plastic container with still water while I was putting it down. I will definitely be aeration when I have to put another fish down which, with the age and condition of a couple of the oldest fish may very well be soon. Thanks Parker. It has. I have had dreams of Puon coming back to life and swimming in the 40 gallon after being in a trash can for ages though it was not as unsettling as one would think. EDIT: One question, it has been 80 F in the 40 gallon tank for about 4 days now. The living room where the aquarium is gets quite hot from sunlight. My family is struggling with money now and can't afford to keep it cooler (A/C bills are always insane: at least $120 in warmer months and the house is only 800 sq. feet). It is in the 90s outside and very humid. We keep it about 78 F in the house and it drops a few degrees below that at night. Goldfish in ponds deal with 80+ degrees in summer, but they have much more than 40 gallons obviously. I can try to block out some of the sunlight that is causing the tank to heat up but running a fan for days over the tank probably won't do much other than drop the temperature a few degrees and burn out the fan. Will they be alright if their tank stays at 80 F for days more longer? Thanks. Renee
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jul 17, 2013 11:15:04 GMT -5
Renee,
If you are looking for a few days of relief from the heat, use a frozen water bottle and switch them out a couple times a day. It should help.
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jul 17, 2013 13:32:41 GMT -5
Renee, If you are looking for a few days of relief from the heat, use a frozen water bottle and switch them out a couple times a day. It should help. You can also place a wet towel on the aquarium, this cools by evaporation. 80 F should not be a major concern even for an extended time, although 78F and lower is better for goldfish. See also Fresh Water Aquarium Care; Warm Weather CoolingCarl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Jul 19, 2013 10:29:17 GMT -5
Thanks. I think I'll try the frozen water bottle since it is easier and doesn't use up extra electricity. (Excellent idea btw devonjohnsgard!) Unfortunately, the fin rot is back. 2 days ago, I noticed Salyme's fins looking a little ragged and by yesterday, was sure the disease was back. What do you suggest I treat with? Could the temperature be making it worse? In its many reoccurances over the past year so far, I have tried medicated wondershells, Triple Sulfa, Furon 2, and perhaps another medication. Any ideas? Thanks. Renee
|
|
|
Post by devonjohnsgard on Jul 19, 2013 11:52:57 GMT -5
Triple Sulfa is very effective for basic Fin Rot infections. Fin Rot can be also be a secondary problem to a couple other problem. Maybe if your treatment is not working, it might be something else. In most cases, it all starts by injury or ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Here is one of Carls that deals with Fin Rot. www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2011/06/betta-fin-rot.html
|
|
|
Post by Carl on Jul 19, 2013 15:13:13 GMT -5
As per Devon; I would use Triple Sulfa again this time
Maybe treat 1 or 2 extra treatments beyond the treatment window this time, making partial water changes prior to each treatment.
My opinion is this fish is not all that strong, so it is highly susceptible
Carl
|
|
|
Post by goldenpuon on Aug 18, 2013 14:55:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the help and sorry for taking so long to reply. Well, it turns out the fish either got a case of fin rot that stopped or I mistook the fin damage it already had for fin rot. Unfortunately, it appears to have come back under a week ago. I did a water change and it looks like the fin rot may have halted. This is strange becuae the fin rot always seems to get Salyme and Wickren, two of the younger, healthiest fish and most voracious eaters. Strangely, it has not attacked Aztec or Nemo (who is atrophing bad right now) who are in much worse shape. I am going to try do 25% water changes and see if that helps. If not, I'll medicate with Triple Sulfa again. To catch up on what is going on, Alden got dropsy on one side practically overnight. She/he was pineconing and lumpy on one side. It was also getting stuck on its side. I finally put Alden down the day I saw that. Nemo also seems weaker and weaker and has developed a slight curve in its back and looks kind of hollow-bellied like it is losing muscle or weight fast. The fish has a hump in its back and looks like it has have scoliosis/ a twist in its spine around its tail. Nemo has gotten progressively worse over the past few months. I have had Nemo since around January 2006. I don't know if there's anything I can do at this point. I feed all the fish Aqueon, Omega 1, and Spirulina goldfish food. I am stepping up on the water changes now that my summer classes including a huge project I devoted the better part of the past couple weeks working on. My theory fro why so many are dying at once-including the fish I got at the end of 2005 and early 2006 now is that feeder fish are bred in spring and summer so Nemo and Alden could be just as old as Puon, Oranda, and Foneme were but just sold at the petstore later on in the year. Also, 2 days ago when I was doing a water change, I stupidly took my glasses off because I was really hot and just changing 30% of the water without siphoning the bottom. Aztec, who has looked weak and worn down lately, got stuck between the tank wall and a heavy decoration. It was not stuck for over 20 minutes and luckily, did not appear much worse off than before. I still feel horrible about the whole thing. I would also like to mention that a bit of Aztec's tail fin is end missing. This is from repeated accident of the fish tearing its long, delicate fins on the filter over the years and possibly in the excitement of feeding time. It is not fin rot and will probably never heal fully. I am also aware that Aztec is quite thin. This has been an issue for Aztec on and off for years (though not nearly as much as fish like Foneme was) and I am unsure if Aztec is atrophying too or not. I got some video and pictures of the fish. I'm not sure how much they will help, but perhaps I can at least get a fuller perspective of what's going on. Here are the videos. My apologies for the poor quality. Also, in one I realized I was sort of chasing Nemo around with the camera. I do not normally do this when filming fish for so long. You may want the sound on too because I explain some of what is going on with the fish in the video. The pictures are surprisingly clear though. Video of Nemo:s457.photobucket.com/user/goldenpuon/media/100_5427_zps26963e4d.mp4.htmlVideo of Aztec:s457.photobucket.com/user/goldenpuon/media/100_5441_zps4d909077.mp4.htmlPictures: Nemo and Kona- Kona is the fat healthy looking fishWickren- mild fin rot, the only other fish besides Salyme that seems to get affected. :/Nemo and Salyme's tailSalyme with the fin rotAztec (top) and Salyme (bottom right)Aztec and Hansel (top). Note: please ignore the fuzz on the aquarium glass. I had tape on the glass at one point and fuzzy and hair sort of stuck to the glass after I removed the tape. Nemo againNemoRenee
|
|