Help with What is Likely Internal Parasites

[goldenpuon]

Hi,

A fish I have had 6 1/2 years (Foneme) appears to have what is likely internal parasites. The fish has seemed to lose weight for a couple years at least now when it was in the 40 gallon with 7 other goldfish and put in back on, and struggled with weight.

Now it is in a 10 gallon because it is going blind due to the lenses on its eyes growing outward. It is in with Oranda, another goldfish I got at the same time at the same store as Foneme who has had the same eye problem, only it appeared 3 years sooner and is doing quite well considering the fact.

Anyway, the problem I am concerned about is not eye problems since this is obviously poor genetics and age-related. Foneme went from as healthy weight about 4 weeks ago to emaciated. I noticed the fish clamping its fins and I woke up in the morning and have white, stringy waste. I thought perhaps the fish was being inactive because it was sleeping since I stay up late and sometimes feed the fish after midnight. However, the waste concerned me so I decided to keep an eye on the fish.

However, last week, I noticed the fish seemed to have lost more than a little weight and became quite concerned, and began feeding it Jungle Anti-parasite medicated food. This medicated food (for my fish at least) seems to have had little noticeable effects when I have used it in the past. I thought since I had decided to use a newly opened bottle (though it had been sitting in a cupboard unopened for a couple years), it would be more effective than the other bottle of Jungle Anti-Parasite medicated food I have which is older and has been open for at least a few years.

This morning I was alarmed to see Foneme looking pale, breathing more heavily and rapidly than it should (the area under its gill covers was somewhat visible and a deep red.) I suspect this is not a gill injury, but rather some form of gill irritation and the fish breathing more heavily than usual that was causing this area of the gill to be visible. I was planning a water change today, and did so immedietely after seeing this. I did not test the water before the water change, but will be tonight after the water has settled so I can get accurate readings.

It has been about 3 weeks since the last water change I did today, though I cleaned the filter and replaced the carbon 2 days ago.

Oranda is also thin, but it is hard for me to tell if it has undergone any major weight loss. It is not as thin as Foneme and typically a bit underweight due to age and the issues it already has. On the other hand, Foneme is dangerously thin. I can see bumps on Foneme that are from its bones.

To the point, I am DEFINITELY going to need something in conjunction with and/or stronger than the Jungle Ant-Parasite medicated food. I am 90% sure this is from internal parasites and if not, probably a genetic/age-related issue.

I feel quite bad I did not notice this sooner nor the severity though I know the fish is quite old.

Prompt responses are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Renee

[parker002]

Do you see any other symptoms of parasites?

The reason I ask is that parasites are generally INTRODUCED. Whether it's bird feces, new fish, live food, whatever.

In a closed environment like that, my thought is it would be pretty hard to get internal parasites.

If all you are seeing is white feces, I would suspect a bacterial infection over parasites.

[goldenpuon]

The feces are partly white and part brown. They are not solely white. The fish is showing other signs of internal parasites such as rapid weight loss. The fish is eating well, or at least seems to have a full appetite.

It has symptoms that can be associated with really any disease actually or vague causes such as clamping its fins somewhat and appearing inactive. I sometimes observe this later than noon some days depending on when iI first feed the fish (I am a night owl). Foneme always perks up after I feed it which made me doubt much was wrong at first. Fish that are sleeping or just woke up sometimes clamp their fins and/or are sluggish. Foneme and Oranda are both swimming around right now looking for food.

Nothing new was introduced recently. Foneme was put in that 10 gallon with Oranda about 6 months ago from the 40 and Puon was transferred to the 40 then. I had some issues in the 40 gallon shortly after I switched Foneme out (which it did not seem to affect despite how close the time frame was), but that was also months ago now. Other than that, nothing new has been introduced.

Renee

[Carl]

Renee, I have to go with what Parker stated about introduction.

I have also seen parasites introduced with live foods such as tubiflex or black worms (not brine shrimp since these come from quite salty waters); HOWEVER, I do not believe you have introduced such foods to your tank.

I would personally treat as per an intestinal bacterial infection unless worms can be categorically proven (such as a worm hanging out the anus).

This would include fish baths with Metronidazole, MB, and salt.
Since intestinal bacteria are also difficult to treat, soaking the fish food in Metronidazole and Kanaplex would be advised too.

Keep in mind that old age can show these symptoms too, although usually not this rapidly unless a disease brings it on.
Think of it this way; Pneumonia deaths are relatively rare in young people in our modern society, however it is a leading cause of death in the elderly and a reasonably healthy elderly person can catch pneumonia and go "down hill" quite quickly.

Sorry BTW for these problems with your goldfish

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks for the quick response.

I have not fed tubiflex worms in years probably to my goldfish. They have been on the same diet of Spirulina 20, Omega One, and Aqueon Goldfish Flakes.

Carl, that is a very good analogy IMO. Foneme has been struggling with weight for a while on and off. (As you saw in some pictures from a couple years back, Foneme was very thin and at about the time i put the fish in with Oranda, Foneme was a healthy weight.) I suspect if this is not a a bacterial infection or other disease, it is age/genetics.

As for the baths, would you recommend an in-tank treatment of Metronidazole and increasing the salt content of the water in the tank? Also, apologies if there is already something about this in an article I missed, but what concentratrion of Metronidazole, Kanaplex, and water should I use for the food? The Kanaplex I have is in a powdered form and so is the Metronidazole I have to my knowledge. I would need to disolve it for this reason of course.

Also, would increasing how often I feed the fish help it put on more weight? Say instead of 2 feedings a day which I typically do, 3-4 quite small feedings. Both fish could stand to put on a bit of weight.

As per your observations Parker and Carl, I will be discontinuing with the Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated Food.

As I mentioned I was going to earlier today, I tested the water and got the following numbers:

GH: 160-180 (My new test strips seem to read lower on GH for some reason)
KH: 120
PH: 7.2-7.3
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: about 25
(Nitrate of 25 is quite high for this tank after doing a 30% water change. The cause is most likely that there was more waste in the tank than usual prior to the water change because I fed the fish an overly large portion of an HBH algae wafer a few days ago and doing a water change after 3 weeks opposed to the normal 2 weeks)

Thanks Carl. Hopefully Foneme will pull through. I never know with these guys any more since they seem to live through everything. lol

On a lighter note, Foneme was still looking for food 3 hours after I fed it today which was quite entertaining. Both Foneme and Oranda went back into "forage" mode when I tested the water as well.

Thanks again for the help Parker and Carl.

Renee

[parker002]

I'm sure they'll be fine if they're back to foraging. Good luck!

[Carl]

As for the baths, would you recommend an in-tank treatment of Metronidazole and increasing the salt content of the water in the tank? Also, apologies if there is already something about this in an article I missed, but what concentratrion of Metronidazole, Kanaplex, and water should I use for the food? The Kanaplex I have is in a powdered form and so is the Metronidazole I have to my knowledge. I would need to disolve it for this reason of course.

There is not an exact amount of medication to use (too much may make the food un-palatable to the fish)
However as a generalization I have started with 1/8 to 1/4 the tank dose of medication (with a minimum of a 5 gallon treatment).
The Fish food should be soaked for 15 minutes. After soak, pour entire contents into aquarium unless under 5 gallons of aquarium

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks Parker and Carl.

Foneme never did lose its appetite, althought "obsessing" for this long over food is a good sign IMO. Perhaps the water change helped a bit.

There is not an exact amount of medication to use (too much may make the food un-palatable to the fish)
However as a generalization I have started with 1/8 to 1/4 the tank dose of medication (with a minimum of a 5 gallon treatment).
The Fish food should be soaked for 15 minutes. After soak, pour entire contents into aquarium unless under 5 gallons of aquarium

Thanks for the info. I am going to have to go with a 1/8 to 1/4 dose since the tank is only 10 gallons total. I am also going to have to improvise a bit on the pouring so that only the food gets in. Two feedings a day with pouring in soaked food and medication could easily lead to accidental overdose of meds in the aquarium but much more likely extra medication going in and uselessly being sucked up by a filter carbon. I should be able to separate the food out of the medication it was soaked in after the 15 minutes and then add it.

Renee

[Carl]

As long as you do not treat the main tank and keep the medication amount to a 5 gallon tank treatment; any medication that also gets into the aquarium will likely only help assuming no more than 1 treatments/feedings per day, or a 2.5 gallon tank treatment assuming no more than 2 treatments/feedings per day.

BTW, sorry I missed your phone call.
I am not totally clear about the Betta question, I will try you tomorrow (or post a question here)

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks for the reply Carl. I am feeding twice a day, but separating the food from the medicated water I am using to soak the food so it should be OK. Then I add only the soaked food into the tank (which has been surprisingly easy so far fortunately).

I do hope I am using the right amount of water/medication for the soaking. I am taking about a 1/2 cup of water from the tank, adding about 1/8 tank dose of both Kanaplex and Medronidazole, and then adding the amount of food I plan to feed in it. Then I am take the food out with my fingers or carefully pour the water out over a bathtub, and add the food alone into the tank.

No problem. It was not a super important call. It was basically me just saying, "Hi", all my fish are still alive, and that a betta born in my house several years ago that I gave to my cousin will be 5 years old in a couple months. Apologies if that distracted you from your work in any way. That is why I said there is no need to call me back.

Renee

[goldenpuon]

Greatnews! Foneme is still alive and looks like he/she has gained a little weight. xD I haven't been looking super closely, but I CAN say there is definitely less stringy waste! I soaked the food for around 1 1/2 weeks in Metronidazole and Kanaplex and it appeared to have worked. Unless the fish "bounced back" somehow on its own.

Renee

[Carl]

Good News Renee! ;D

Whether the fish bounced back on his/her own or the medicine did the trick (or a little of both), there is no 100% sure way of knowing, but good news just the same.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Agreed. I am very happy Foneme alright. I will have had him/her 7 years on September 1st (or 3rd) if memory serves. All 10 goldfish are going strong! XD They are quite phemononal... unless they have been blessed with some form of immortality. LOL

Renee

[parker002]

Great news.