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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 1, 2011 15:04:04 GMT -5
Ummmm yeah...     This has happened to two of the Black Bar Endler's (one female, one BB/Peacock male). Male was in the 75g, female was in the 10g breeder tank...the male looked "prego" heavy chested didn't get a good pix of her chest...he looked like he had "big boobs"....chest stuck out...like the female in the pix. I pulled her as soon as I saw her and kept her in a 1/2g qt tank. She died about 5 days later. Right before her death, she could not swim. She was totally head down. I didn't see the male die, I saw him one day, and the next he was gone....I do have a 6 in Koi in the tank, so not hard for him to get gobbled up  She did not pinecone until the day before she died...or it wasn't as bad as it is in the photo. Her rear looked like she is try to deliver a baby (birth sack)...clear membrane...or like her guts are being pushed out.
I was going to let her decay for a few days to see if any "worms" came out of her, but sorry...that was just gross and I really felt bad for her I don't have water parameters on either tank, but the water gets changed weekly and both tanks are heavily planted. (just got off work...will add more info later if I get a chance) |
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Post by goldenpuon on Nov 1, 2011 15:54:16 GMT -5
If you still have the fish, is it possible you can (and I know this is a very gross idea) ... to disect her? This may help determine what is wrong internally if it is visible such as worms or swelling. She looks heavily pregnant and unless the black spots around her vent are coloration or disease-related, I'd say the black specks visible in the pictures are probably babies. It also looks like the area around her vent protruding in the first two pictures. If the male hadn't shown the same symptoms of bloating, I would say the protruding vent area coupled with the the look that she was heavily pregnant was a birth gone very wrong (such as she didn't give birth on time and the babies continued to grow inside her and both she they all died as a result). But since the male was in a different tank, it leads me to believe this might not be a pregnancy complication (although the possibility still exists). I suspect that if it was not from pregnancy, it could be dropsy, internal parasites, or another ailment. All of these are educated guesses based on what I see in the pictures and the information I have. Were there any other symptoms? As well, were the female and male that died ever in contact or did they come from the same source? Lastly, how long did you have both fish and were there any diseases in the tanks they were in/that the fish they were with had contact that could have infected them? Best of luck and I hope you are able to get to the bottom of this! Renee |
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Post by Carl on Nov 1, 2011 19:00:42 GMT -5
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Post by parker002 on Nov 1, 2011 19:31:26 GMT -5
The upside of using Metro to treat a potential bacterial infection is that it is also somewhat effective in killing certain internal parasites.
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 2, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Lori, do you transfer equipment back and forth? Nets...maybe. The male endler that died was born in this tank, but as soon as he showed Peacock markings instead of BlackBar, he was moved...this was.....4 months ago? He disappeared about a week or so before I saw and pulled this female.Are you running a UV Sterilizer and if so at what flow rate and wattage? No UV on either tank. I do have one, but it will be used on my betta barracks once I get them built. Also as per a UV Sterilizer, the UV bulbs must be changed every six months. I got the one I have from you, and it has never been used When you can get the parameters for both tanks this may be helpful (pH, KH, GH, Nitrates too) Was not able to get readings yesterday. I had 2 "poopz" Oh my...board changed it... S h i t z tzu [img src="![]() i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/evelynmarch26/smileys/c050-1.gif"][/IMG][/color]dogs to groom. Got done around 7pm last night.[/color] My thought is a either internal worms or Aeromonas, although the timeline is likely too quick to be worms (nematodes)This was my thought too Carl. Renee, I did think about cutting her open after she died, but I really don't have the stomach for that I already flushed her.The problem with an Aeromonas diagnosis or other causes of Dropsy is with a well maintained tank such as yours it is relatively rare and to happen to two separate tanks is rather odd. This is what I am thinking. It has happened before...it seems to only affect older females. The male was the first time it happened to a male. The only common factor was they are related.Is there any possibility of cross contamination between these Endlers tanks and the bettas tanks (containers)? No. I don't use the same nets on my betta as I do the endlers. The last time I even used a net in this tank was to remove the female, and before that, it was to remove that male and 3 others showing the same Peacock markings. I am/was attempting to clean these up from outcrossing to the wrong type ender. They will never again be "true" endlers, but at least they will breed true.Another question, are any other fish showing symptoms at this time? As of right now, no...no other fish are showing this type symptom. This tank has always had this problem. I assumed it was due to old age/"over" breeding female. Well until it affected a male in a totally different tank. The only other issue I have in this tank (this tank only) is the females tend to get some sort of fungus/fin rot. It starts out looking like Ich, but I have salt as a preventative, and it goes away and stays gone as long as I use Fungus Guard in the tank. It seems to only affect breeding age/older females. I just add fungus guard when I see one of them get it. It does get on the body as a small "white head" pimple looking thing.As for thoughts, at this point I lean towards Aeromonas without parameters and symptoms being known. If no other fish are showing signs you might just soak the fish food for 15 minutes with one measure of Neoplex (Neomycin) and Metronidazole. If other fish are sick I would add fish baths for the sick fish to the mix as well as in tank treatment with Kanaplex and Metronidazole or Furan 2Carl I will start this as soon as I double ck that I have all the meds.
Please see added info (or worded better) in original post.
Lori |
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Post by Carl on Nov 2, 2011 15:42:22 GMT -5
A genetic issue may be part of the problem, rendering them weak to opportunistic diseases Knowing all parameters is very helpful. A busy schedule is why I really like the API 5 in 1 test strips as these give me 90% of the information I need very quickly and although no as accurate as some methods, they are accurate enough for 95% of parameters in aquarium/pond keeping. Product Reference: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquariumtestkit.html#5in1Fungus Guard is a useful product (with Nitrofurazones as a major active ingredient). That said, from what you are saying I might suggest Medicated Wonder Shells since these would also provide a constant amount of mineral ions, which are especially essential for Endlers; in fact to be more blunt whether it be the medicated version or the regular this or another method of providing these mineral ions is a MUST for livebearers in general. Product Reference for Medicated Wonder Shells: www.americanaquariumproducts.com/MedicatedWonderShell.html#medicatedCarl |
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Post by Suzie Q (Lori) on Nov 4, 2011 14:07:04 GMT -5
Are you running a UV Sterilizer and if so at what flow rate and wattage? No UV on either tank. I do have one, but it will be used on my betta barracks once I get them built. Still no parameters...Water change today so I'll pull them then and post....I had a lot of errands to run and dogs to groom this week....don't have anything to do today  |
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