Polleni with droopsy possible

[jonv]

Carl, Bill, right now I can't get a good shot for a pic but I think my larger Paratilapia Polleni, the icon picture of mine has Droopsy. About 2-3 weeks ago, I noticed he was quite lethargic and losing color over in the 75 gallon tank, so I took him out of there and put him in the 100. I'd kept him in the 100 before but he rough housed the other Polleni there, the smaller one too much so I kept them in seperate tanks.

Well it's been a few weeks now and he doesn't appear to be getting any better. Still pale greyish color instead of black, and as I closer examine him, appears the the lower end where the anal vent is, is lowered and distended. A scale appears to be falling off near his gills, and the body scales are starting to stick out, slightly. Not very dramatically but slightly out, but definetely not flush to the body. The only guess I have to this is droopsy from what I've read about it.

I'll work on getting a pic but if droopsy is possible anything else to watch for? It's been 2-3 weeks appears he's had this.

[Carl]

Sorry for the slow response Jon, I left town about 3 hours prior to this post (I think this post got buried due to other posts that came in after it too).

Anyway this does not quite seem right for Dropsy.
Can you provide any water parameters?

Do you see and stressers, such as aggression by or toward him?

You might start with some Medicated Methylene Blue baths with salt and Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone.

Maybe increase minerals and water change frequency.

A picture would help if at all possible.

I am leaning toward the view that this may be a case of Aeromonas, but knowing water parameters (& trends) would be helpful. Aeromonas can be a cause of Dropsy too.

Carl

[jonv]

At this point he's still mostly non response by comparison to how he used to be. Appears he's in a more fragile weaker state Carl. I'm actually worried the stress of netting and moving him for treatment could do more harm then good right now. He's stable but not lively like he used to be and way down in color to a milky brown instead of black. I wasn't able to get the proper readings in the tank as it seems the testing supplies I have on hand have expired or are out of date. The readings didn't stay consistent. I did just do a water change last weekend and added my usual buffer minerals with it. I would go far enough to say without a measure that at least the GH/KH should be in adequate range, and a fairly stable pH around 8.2. That was the last reading I had on it a few months ago and been using the same routines. I also keep the 100 gallon with a thin layer of crushed coral to keep maintain that KH.

I'm off after Friday, on nights this week and will aim to get better testers and a reading. Money just a bit tight for a couple weeks as plant was in holiday/shut down mode. Hours will go back to regular next week but will take a week after that before I get that pay so this might be on hold for a bit.

[Carl]

Is there a way to get a clear picture Jon?

Have you noticed any thing out of the usual prior to his current state of health?

I understand the concern of stressing him by moving, but there is a point where the risk of him dying out weighs the risk of capture to his health.
Even if the minerals test well, it still would be a good idea to slowly add minerals, as it is the mineral cations (positively charged mineral ions) that are Redox Reducers and attack free radical both in the water and on/within the fish.

Carl

[Suzie Q (Lori)]

Jon, How is your fish doing?

[jonv]

Sorry been away a bit. The rotating schedule I had was really getting to me and sleeping was kind of at odd times. The need for drivers went down as 1st quarter always are slow, so when the pre-halloween runs start up, I'll be back on the rotating schedule so for now, I'm back on the straight night shifts which I like

I can't really get a good enough shot to show the body with the lighting here. I never was able to get a molded fit for lights on there. I have been using makeshift lighting which provides light for the tank just it has some darker spots in the back so getting a good enough shot to show his lighter color will never be of any good quality.

I do think however that he's doing better because instead of just kind of hovering in one area, he's moving to different parts. He's still not quite the same as he was, he's still more milky brownish in color then jet black but he is moving more and staying closer to the other smaller Polleni. I suspect that is a female too. The lower end by his anal vent still seems to be distended, but he is regaining some black to him. It looks like things are improving enough I will try meth blue isolations.

[jonv]

He didn't make it sorry. Held out for a few months just never seemed to regain his color even when I put him over in the 100 gallon. Calling it a "he" because was much bigger then the last Polleni I have left by far and usually harassed the smaller one when they were together. Anyways he finally did die on me after 2 years from baby up. That's the one on the picture for the icon. It happens. He did hold in there for awhile just never seemed to regain his form.

[Carl]

Sorry to read about the loss of your Polleni Jon, he was a very beautiful & unique fish.

Dropsy is a very difficult to treat and keeping alive this long after symptoms first appeared is something to be said.

Carl

[jonv]

I assume that is what it was Carl. That's the only thing comes to mind seeing his anal area/intestinal down and distended. He didn't pine cone though. But he went from that jet black look you see to more of a milky brown chocolate color type, sometimes almost dirty white. Put the buffers up over 3 water changes to keep the redox in balance, tried 2 tank changes a week. He perked up looked like one week, became a tad more active, still had color loss though. Found him on the bottom of the tank one morning though. It happens just wish I knew what it was. Droopsy is the only thing I could think it looked like, minus pine coned scales.

[Carl]

Not all internal infections result in the classic "pine cone" look of Dropsy, which in of itself is not a specific disease; rather similar internal infections with the same outward symptoms (generally kidney).

My guess would be more liver related, since liver issues generally will not result in the bloating from water retention, but are very likely to affect the color and attitude of your fish.
The bigger question is whether this likely liver issue was caused by a pathogen (& why), genetic, water (I doubt), or simply just a "freak" liver malfunction.

Carl