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Post by parker002 on Aug 10, 2010 19:03:37 GMT -5
I have four white skirt tetras. For the last 2 or 3 days, the largest of them has not been eating and appears to be gasping. She's not schooling and sometimes hides in a cave.
She hadn't displayed any other visible signs of illness until today, when I noticed a white, gel-like substance near her anal fin. One of the smaller tetras nipped at her and knocked it loose - several of the fish tasted it but ultimately it broke up.
A few days ago, before she was sick, I did notice a quite large mass stuck to a sponge filter - a whitish gel almost an inch long and 1/4 inch wide. I examined it in a plastic baggie and it was definitely like a gel (not stringy or fibrous) and didn't appear to contain any large particles.
I just finished treating for ich about a week ago and my tank is currently dosed with Coppersafe. She isn't eating, so medicated food isn't going to work.
It seems I'm in an endless cycle of fish deaths here and I'm not sure what to do.
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Post by sammiesam on Aug 10, 2010 20:37:28 GMT -5
a parasite of some sort. That would be my guess, or an internal infection. Not really sure what to do though, but carl will for sure
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Post by parker002 on Aug 10, 2010 23:05:58 GMT -5
The thing is, I just finished a round of Paraguard + Herbal Ich Attack + Jungle Anti-Parasite Food and the tank is also dosed with CopperSafe as a preventative.
I can't imagine they STILL have parasites.
It's got to be an internal aeromonas infection, but I don't know how to get rid of it if she won't eat.
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Post by sammiesam on Aug 11, 2010 2:32:48 GMT -5
Hmmm maybe Kanaplex? I think when my goldies had white poop, as well as some sores I used a combination of kanaplex and metrodiazole for two weeks worth and it cleared it up really well as well as methylene blue and salt baths. Carl will have some great suggestions though when he gets online. Until then the methylene blue baths are always a great start. I use these for everything to just help out. Carl has a great article with info on it somewhere
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Post by parker002 on Aug 11, 2010 7:21:41 GMT -5
I've been doing MB/salt baths and they're not helping, which leads me to another observation:
She isn't getting any worse. This morning she looks exactly like she has the last few days.
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Post by Carl on Aug 11, 2010 10:23:51 GMT -5
I would also venture a guess that this is an internal Aeromonas infection, which are often difficult to treat. For a medicated bath to help, you would need to also use medication that will get to the infection itself, such as Metronidazole and/or Kanaplex Kanaplex and Nitrofurazone in the tank may help, although Nitrofurazone does not absorb as well. Since you noted ongoing problems, this may be a matter of prevention more than treatment. Make sure there is no build up of organic Mulm anywhere in the tank, as this can harbor Aeromonas bacteria. Make sure your KH is at least 80 ppm, that you have at least some mineralization, consider the use of Indian Almond Leaf products such as Bio Lif which in their purest form tend to inhibit Aeromonas.Finally if you do not have a UV Sterilizer, this can also be a useful tool for prevention of Aeromonas as well
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Post by parker002 on Aug 11, 2010 10:53:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I just treated the tank with Furan-2 (combined with Paraguard) in mid-June. I've also used those Jungle broad spectrum tank buddies and all of the meds listed above.
My tank is SPOTLESS. I could stick a gravel vac into the substrate right now and not suck up ANYTHING. My kH and gH are both off the charts due to the fact that we're currently experiencing 500-year flooding every 2 or 3 weeks.
The only thing I really haven't done is add the UV. I just don't know if I have the cash for it right now.
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Post by Carl on Aug 11, 2010 14:21:32 GMT -5
I might suggest the use of Indian Almond Leaves, as these are cheap ( Bio Lif which is just one source for these is only $4.99). Although this will turn your tank a yellow tint, it will help keep a more natural environment, especially for Tetras. I would also emphasize this use since you noted that the GH & KH is off the charts, as although I recommend maintaining these parameters, it is not a matter of the more the better, rather consistency especially with fish that prefer soft water. See Aquarium Water ChemistryCarl
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Post by parker002 on Aug 11, 2010 16:49:52 GMT -5
OK, I've got Furan-2 and some Jungle Anti-Bacterial Food (contains Sulfa). I just ordered Kanaplex and the Bio Lif from you.
I plan on dosing the tank with Furan + Kanaplex while feeding the food. Since I need to remove filtration during treatment, I'm going to throw away my filter media.
Once treatment is complete I will insert new filter media and the Bio-Lif (the cartridges contain carbon but from reading your page it seems that might be ok). I intend to continue using Coppersafe as well.
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Post by Carl on Aug 11, 2010 18:18:42 GMT -5
I hope this helps.
The Bio Lif should help bring some balance to your water chemistry at the very least, however its natural anti-anaerobic bacterial activity should help too (Aeromonas is anaerobic)
My suggestion is to leave the carbon out for 24-48 hours and let your tank get "nice and yellow" from the Bio Lif, then introduce the carbon
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Aug 25, 2010 15:27:05 GMT -5
OK, I've done 4 days with Kanaplex, Furan-2, and the Jungle Parasite Clear tank buddies. I've also been feeding the jungle anti-bacterial food for those 4 days.
I lost two fish (I was on vacation and couldn't start treatment until I got back - they were eaten to the point of being nearly unrecognizable) but the other fish seem to be recovering.
Tomorrow, I will do a 25% water change and add the Bio Lif.
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Post by parker002 on Aug 31, 2010 11:20:00 GMT -5
The Bio Lif has been in for just under 48 hours. I will add the filter cartridges here shortly.
Despite the full-spectrum treatment, I still have one mickey mouse platy that appears to be struggling.
Honestly, I'm just about done with live bearers. I'm done replacing them. I'm seriously thinking about upping my population of glo-lite and black neon tetras to over 20 - I really enjoy watching them school (I have 8 of them now).
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Post by Carl on Aug 31, 2010 11:48:40 GMT -5
One thought as to Platties & other livebearers is that they often thrive in slightly different water parameters than Tetra (although I have mixed them with success for years); most livebearers are more sensitive to poor levels of mineral cations and may require some salt as well. I should also note that many livebearers have life spans of 1.5 - 2 years and if the fish is purchased as an adult, it is anyones guess how much of this time has been used up. So my point is that your Platy might be simply suffering old age (this is just a guess of coarse), and if so all the treatments in the world are not going to help.
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Aug 31, 2010 12:04:55 GMT -5
Absolutely true. Some of my fish are reaching that 2-year threshold.
I do use salt at the maximum recommended dose.
Our water is extremely hard, which I thought would be better for livebearers than for tetras (I've always heard tetras prefer softer water). The livebearers just seem to ALWAYS have some kind of gastrointestinal distress.
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Post by Carl on Aug 31, 2010 15:29:10 GMT -5
Our water is extremely hard, which I thought would be better for livebearers than for tetras (I've always heard tetras prefer softer water). The livebearers just seem to ALWAYS have some kind of gastrointestinal distress. This is true, although hard water does not necessarily translate to mineral cations as these can be depleted just as car battery is depleted when drained yet still contains the lead and acids. In fact this is an area where I believe a lot of misunderstanding still exists in the aquarium hobby Carl
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Post by parker002 on Aug 31, 2010 15:52:32 GMT -5
If I'm doing frequent water changes and adding salt with each one, do I really need to add additonal minerals?
The mineral deposits are out-of-control the way it is - I hate to add even more.
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Post by Carl on Aug 31, 2010 16:38:44 GMT -5
If I'm doing frequent water changes and adding salt with each one, do I really need to add additional minerals? The mineral deposits are out-of-control the way it is - I hate to add even more. With frequent water changes, most likely not. However the salt is but one electrolyte, others include calcium, Magnesium, etc. A test of your Redox using Methylene Blue might help determine this; Aquarium RedoxCarl
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Post by parker002 on Aug 31, 2010 17:18:04 GMT -5
I tried to read through the article - I have to admit it's a little late in the day to try to process THAT. I did try the simple MB test outlined but to be honest, I don't know how to determine what the results are. What constitutes diminished color? Adding the MB to water obviously dilutes it, but I don't know how to determine if it's any less "blue".
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Post by Carl on Sept 1, 2010 9:46:45 GMT -5
The difference with the Methylene Blue test is quite subtle.
Sometimes using a control set of three cups of water makes it a bit easier in discerning the subtle difference. This would include a cup with a known reducer such as wonder shell added; another with aged polluted tank water (I used water set aside in a cup with decomposing fish food for a couple of days); and finally a test with aquarium water immediately drawn from the tank.
Even then, only a Redox Meter is accurate for determining actual Redox.
Carl
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Post by parker002 on Sept 1, 2010 10:36:02 GMT -5
Yeah, that's just too complicated for me. Maybe I'll just add supplemental minerals and be done with it.
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