SICK FISH NEED HELP ASAP

[cjsworld]

Tank Size: 75 gallon
Age of the tank: 3 months
pH: 7.1
Ammonia: 0
NitrAtes: 0
nitrites: 0
GH/KH:
Temperature: 78F
Fish:

I have 6 angel fish 1 golden nugget pleco 1 columbian zebra pleco 1 spotted high fin pleco 1 ghost koi(housing him till spring for my mom hes under 4")1 featherfin catfish

Symptoms:

In the past two weeks I have had a little bit of a problem. My spotted high fin has a 1/3 of the high fin that he had. It has rotted away. My angel fish have frayed fins and on the long fins that come of the bottom they seem to have a white fungus.

I first started treating with lifeguard went through the entire treatment as specified on the box and repeated it. No change. Then I did a 50% water change and followed it by treating with API EM Erythromycin Anti-Bacterial Fish Medication did the treatment as specified on the box. Repeated it still no change. Once again I did a 50% water change and started treating with Melafix and Pimafix. It seems like the fungas is almost gone but the angel fish's fins are much more frayed today than they were yesterday. I have spent a lot of money trying to fix my tank at the advise of the petstore employee's and I no longer trust the advise they have to give. Can someone please help me with my situation.

[parker002]

Carl will be much more help than me I'm sure, but the only thing I can suggest is that you used Erythromycin, which should be effective against septicemia and aeromonas.

However, Jungle Life Guard is a broad-spectrum anti-everything medicine and my own personal experience is that if a medicine does everything, it doesn't do any of them WELL.

It's possible that you were treating a secondary infection first, before treating the fungus well enough, and the secondary infection actually re-occured by the time the fungus was gone.

You might want to retreat with antibiotics if the Mela and Pima are doing the trick. Melafix especially should be good for treating the fin damage.

But like I said, Carl should hopefully be around here soon and he'll have much better info than me.

[parker002]

Nope, nope, nope. I had it COMPLETELY backwards.

Erythromycin is for treating strep bacteria. It isn't effective against aeromonas.

www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Vibrio_Aeromonas.html

[Carl]

Thanks Parker, I really appreciate you stepping in a providing some excellent points/information!

I would definitely read the article that Parker already posted, as it can go into more depth

This definitely has the marks of a Aeromonas infection, however other infections such as Columnaris or Saprolegnia cannot be ruled out as well. Since you already used Erythromycin, I think it is safe to say Strep is not what you are dealing with.

Since all three of the mentioned infections are opportunistic, removing possible causes is half the battle.
Aeromonas in particular is notable as to its opportunistic causes such as poor filtration, areas of anaerobic activity in the surface of the gravel, lack of healthy water changes.

Improvement in water parameters such as obvious ones like ammonia or even nitrates can help, as well lack of minerals can also be a major contributor to all three disease pathogens.

If possible, could you upload or post a link to a picture of your fish?

As well please provide your water parameters, as again this is VERY important as all the medications in the world cannot heal a fish that is fighting opportunistic diseases that are thriving due to certain water conditions or other stressers.

Please read through the articles posted here in this thread; then ask more questions that might arise, and again please provide us with more info as well.

A few thoughts (besides potential water condition stressers) is a Fish Bath, treatment with Nitrofurazone, Kanamycin, addition of minerals or salt if necessary; but I am getting ahead with these suggestions

Carl

[cjsworld]

Hey guys thanks for all the information. I do a weekly water change my water levels are all premo. I thought about the possibility of something in the tank so I put all my fish in a hospital tank stripped it down cleaned it spotless and returned the fish. I am running a Fluval 405 for a filter, lots of circulation in the tank. my ph is 7.2 amonia/nitrate/nitrite all 0 I am really baffled by this infection seeing as how nothing seems to work 100% anything you can tell me would be a great help i will upload photos as soon as possible

[Carl]

I would be careful about a total "tear down/cleaning"; if you interrupt the nitrogen cycle this can cause a lot of problems.

What is your KH, and GH, as well have your tracked pH trends?

The medications and bath can help quite well with this, assuming an Aeromonas infection (these also help for Columnaris, although causes are different)

Did you have a chance to read through the Aeromonas and Columnaris/Saprolegnia articles?

What filter media is in your Fluval, did you remove the carbon during treatments?


BTW, welcome to our group

Carl

[cjsworld]

Ive never monitered my kh what is that? As far as filter media I only have my bio rocks and sponge in the filter. my uv sterilizer is off. I did read all about Aeromonas and Columnaris/Saprolegnia. My problem all started I bought a Royal pleco from a local petstore the Royal died 2 weeks after i bought him from some white fungas all over his body then i lost 3 dwarf bristle nose plecos then i lost some mollies and scissor tails. and now im concerned my whole tank is going to die away on me.

[Carl]

Your KH is is the parameter that maintains a stable pH, as pH swings can be deadly or at the very least allow for a less disease resistant fish (the Columnaris article mentions this and links to further information)

Please see this article: Aquarium Chemistry; GH, KH, Minerals

Essential minerals is also for fish health too, especially Mollies (found in GH)

Also see this article, which provides an overview of disease prevention:A Healthy Aquarium; Disease Prevention

Why is your UV Sterilizer off?
What size is this UV (wattage), and when is the last time you changed the UV Bulb (it should be done every six months to be effective)?

It definitely seems as though this disease was introduced, proving a picture would help us be a little more accurate in making an educated guess as to the problem.

However I would start with the Medicated Fish Baths, consider using Furan 2 (Nitrofurazone) and Kanamycin for treatment if the combination of Melafix and Pimafix does not work (although not as strong, the Melafiz/Pimafix combination may work along with the baths and optimum water conditions and use of small amounts of salt as already noted.

Maintain a temperature of 75 F and use a tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons.

If you are not sure about baths, please read the link I posted above.

Carl

[cjsworld]

Hey Carl thank you for everything so far. I turned my sterilizer off when I started treating with the Lifeguard. The instructions for both the EM and the Lifeguard was to turn the sterilizer off. I am going to start bringing the temperature down 1 degree a day from 80 to 75 degrees. I did a water change added the melafix I will go out and get some salt tomorow and see if that helps. Should I turn my UV back on? I will try to get a picture of them its hard to get a good picture of them I have been trying all day. Everytime I grab the camera they are in the shadows of the tank and you cant really see anything. I will do a complete test on my tank tomorow. I am going to go buy a master test kit in the morning. How often should I be doing water changes when everything is normal since im running a UV?

[cjsworld]

Sorry i forgot to tell you that UV sterilizer is only 2 months old. It is a 9w Green Killing Machine.

[fishfever]

I think the reason they say to turn off the UV during treatment is that it can affect the medications (maybe break down certain compounds). So normally during treatment you turn the lamp off (although it's probably okay to leave the UV pump on) and remove any carbon so it won't absorb the medication.

Although this might be taken as a "smart" answer, I think the water changes should be at the same frequency that you did them before you added the UV sterilizer (assuming that was sufficient frequency) and that will depend on what kind of bio-load you have. Although the UV certainly adds many benefits, you still need to remove the DOCs regularly from your water and really doesn't change your cleaning schedule IMHO. I personally do a "major" cleaning (break down everything, clean inside UV tubes, pumps, etc.) about every 3-4 weeks and a "minor" cleaning (just filter pads, sponges, volcanic rock bag, scrub tank walls, and of course thorough gravel vac) at roughly the half-way point of a "major" cleaning. The "major" cleaning also includes everything I do at the "minor" cleaning as well.

You will definitely want to read that aquarium chemistry article that Carl posted and especially if you live in an area (like I do) with soft water.

[Carl]

You are correct in turning off your UV Sterilizer while treating with many antibiotics (not necessarily chemical treatments like Malachite Green though).

As fishfever stated, your UV Sterilizer does not change change other maintenance procedures such as cleaning or addition of minerals, etc.

As well (please do not take this as a personal attack on your equipment), the Green Killing Machine is one of the worse designed UVs on the market, we tested these (along with our sister maintenance companies) and rejected them as although they are effective enough to remove /kill suspended algae, they are not very good at disease pathogens and have a short lifespan.

Back to your tank, did you also remove your carbon prior to treating?

Here are a few other articles that many help:
UV Sterilization; How it Works
Aquarium UV Sterilizer Articles

Carl

[cjsworld]

Thank you for the information Carl. I do weekly water changes and vacuum my gravel, by weekly filter media, gravel and water and a monthly major cleaning. I was under the impression that the Green Killing Machine was a top of the line product. Do u suggest upgrading to a better sterilizer? If so could you give me in your opinion what would be a good choice for my 75 gallon? Also since the Green Killing Machine isn't as effective could i put it in a 40 gallon?

[Carl]

Mar 17, 2010 10:15:44 GMT -5 cjsworld said:

Thank you for the information Carl. I do weekly water changes and vacuum my gravel, by weekly filter media, gravel and water and a monthly major cleaning. I was under the impression that the Green Killing Machine was a top of the line product. Do u suggest upgrading to a better sterilizer? If so could you give me in your opinion what would be a good choice for my 75 gallon? Also since the Green Killing Machine isn't as effective could i put it in a 40 gallon?

Sorry I missed this reply (I have been very busy of late)

I am both surprised and frustrated that someone would mislead you to think the Green Killing Machine is "top of the line" when most reputable retailers that I speak to during my business trips discontinued it and that no aquarium maintenance company ever sold these (that I know of) due to the plethora of problems.

I would also add that the owners of the company that makes these are world class jerks based on an insulting phone call they made to me about a year ago.

See: Potential UV Sterilizer Problems, Equipment to Avoid

I would definitely recommend upgrading to a better sterilizer, and one that runs off a separate pump/filter.
For you 75 gallon, consider a 9 watt UV (such as the Terminator) run at 200 gph or less.

As for the 40 this may work for as long as the UV works (lifespan is part of the problem of this UV, although incorrect flow rate is another)

Carl