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Post by fishfever on Dec 11, 2009 12:28:59 GMT -5
I've recently experimented by increasing the number of Buenos Aires tetras in our tank from 2 to 6, trying to get closer to a school. I thought with more fish the aggression would be reduced but instead it seemed there was more chasing and attacking within the group when they weren't schooling. I tripled the number of plants in the tank and that helped some but today I noticed 3 mollies with new small fin nips. I also read about a fellow (I think in the U.K.) who has been raising the B.A. tetras for some time and claims their personalities get worse and worse with age, so much so that he has had to isolate them or put them in the gold fish pond. So I think I'll return all but one male B.A. tetra who seemed to be doing fine by himself but started acting aggressively once the other B.A. tetras were put in the tank.
I plan on replacing these tetras with a school of 5-6 smaller, more *peaceful* tetras that at full size are 2" or less. I already have a small school of Flame Von Rio's and a couple of Lamp eyes. I've narrowed the choices down to Rummy Nose, Lemon, Black Phantom, Bloodfin, Neon, Black Neon and X-Ray (Pristella). Would appreciate any suggestions within this group or any others I haven't thought of... thanks!
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Post by corycatwoman on Dec 11, 2009 15:04:43 GMT -5
neons are the best schoolers in the list you mentioned i would suggest a mixture of regular neons or even emperer tetra's if you want larger then neon. but then the mix wont work.
but mix the regular neons with black neons. id say 3 each would be good. then youll have the typical school you were looking for.
with tetra's its not that they get more aggressive when they are in larger schools its more they feel safer and can pester more frequently.
your only option would be to isolate or remove like that guy in the U.K and they are fish all fish have there own distinct personalities. maybe you just had a roudy batch.
as far as schools go the only first hand knowlege i can give you is with the neons or with guppies i havent really schooled any other fish purposely anyway.
schools of neons should be atleast a handful no less ever! they need the extra numbers to feel safe enough to free swim the whole upper half of the tank. if you ever see them on 1 side or in 1 corner you may want to add a couple more.
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Post by Carl on Dec 11, 2009 16:39:02 GMT -5
I have to agree with the person from the UK, i have noticed this as well about Buenos Aires Tetras, as well as some Glo Lite Tetras when they get older. I have also seen Bloodfin and rummy nose get "nippy, but not to the level of the Buenos Aires. Consider the Emperor Tetra to add to your list  Carl |
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Post by fishfever on Dec 11, 2009 17:40:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips... I don't know why I missed the Emperor tetra. I took 5 B.A. tetras and put them in the breeding cage to see how the tank was without them and things immediately got a lot calmer. I also noticed a platy with a new fin nip so it was the right time to remove them. Even the original B.A. male was acting like his old self and not bothering others. My wife says just keep it like this after taking the tetras back but it sure would be nice to have a school of active, small peaceful tetras in there. Another thought I had was to add a few more Flame Von Rios to try to get them to school more. We currently have 4 and they school occasionally but mostly like to hide out in their favorite spots. One is well over a year old and is more orangish without the two stripes and the other 3 are a bit less than a year old and appear to be traditional reddish/gold Flame Von Rios with the stripes. I don't know if mixing new young ones with the older ones would encourage them to school more if the older ones are set in their ways which is mostly hiding. But for now I'll just return the B.A. tetras while I ponder my next move...
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Post by corycatwoman on Dec 11, 2009 17:49:39 GMT -5
depending on the size of your tank. i would suggest atleast 5 of each tetra species. except neons of course they do have regular not always but most of the time success in using the black mixed with the regular and still have a normal school.
although when added 5 of each the black and the regular they seperated schools. that was only in my experience with them in a 30 gallon tank. with a large pleco and a few silver dollars.
so if theres any logic or secondary proof to my experience if your going the neon route just get 3 of each. (or 5 or 6 of one) if enough room even 5 of the other.
but for starters if your worried about overstocking. and your taking back almost a full school. i would just pick up 1 of each of the ones you already have and try to build there schools up high enough they feel safe enough to free swim together with out any hassle of the other schools.
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Post by fishfever on Dec 12, 2009 14:09:07 GMT -5
I returned the 5 B.A tetras last night to two pet shops (I had bought 2 from one and 3 from the other). The last store was getting ready to close in about 20 minutes but I had time to browse a bit and on impulse bought 5 small X-ray (golden Pristellas). I was torn between them and the black neons. Since I have a molly in my hospital/isolation tank (and was a bit impatient to see how they would get along with the others) I shortcut the best practice of isolating them first. I did use a method of minimizing the transfer of water by pouring out a bit of water from the bag and slowing introducing tank water multiple times so that an hour later there was probably less than 1% LFS water left in the bag. At this point the water in the bag is nearly identical to tank water/temp so it's a matter of just netting the fish and introducing them to the tank. (Note: this method does not help much other than acclimate them if the fish are infected with something.)
So far the X-rays are getting along great. At first I noticed a few platies follow them around curiously to see if they were potential food (they are only about 3/4" long and very slender). But this morning nobody is bothering them and they are schooling really well primarily around the middle part of the tank. I'm still very tempted to go back and get 5 black neons which are supposed to school near the top level of the tank (which in my tank is often barren except during feeding time). I've heard (but am not sure of this) that an odd number of schooling fish (within each school) tends to work better than even numbers?
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Post by Carl on Dec 12, 2009 14:28:09 GMT -5
I hope your new acquisitions continue to work out (pictures if possible?) I am not sure about the odd number of schooling fish is better than even (I never have experimented with this). Not to make a joke of it, but it makes me ponder the thought if fish can count and determine odd or even numbers, maybe prime numbers or square roots too  Carl |
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Post by corycatwoman on Dec 12, 2009 15:57:33 GMT -5
ya i havent really noticed that odd are any better then even. but ive never had a large tank to experiment that.
but i will say that its most likely along the same lines of what i was attempting in a very blunt way about the neons. ill expand the thaught to make it less blunt and more simple to understand.
if you have only neons in your tank and you have 3 of the regular and 3 of the black. they will school together to feel safer.
if you then add 2 more of each they will seperate into 2 distinct schools or colonies.
im only assuming that if this is the case then if you were to add a larger school of a seperate species such as lets just through out a random tetra such as your x ray's and lets say a group of 8 or 9.
i feel that the neons would then school back together as 1 colony to compete with the x ray school weather for tank space or for feeding.
thats my only experience with schooling fish and it has only been tested with neons.
im sure others here can go into more scientific details of the reason of this or if its factual or just coincedence that it happend with my neons. or if my logical thinking is actually factual about the addition of seperate species.
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Post by fishfever on Dec 13, 2009 14:56:02 GMT -5
I can't imagine that at higher numbers that occur in nature that the even/oddness could possibly matter. Maybe at real low numbers (and I have no idea why if even true) would I even entertain this possibility. Probably a reasonable test would be to see if a school of 5 consistently schools better than a school of 6 and even then it would be somewhat subjective since you'd have to grade the schooling each trial. LOL
I'll try to upload a few photos of the X-rays later today. They are still doing great and even when they briefly separate, like magnets they are drawn back together. I was thinking of adding another 1 or 2 to strengthen the schooling behavior but they seem to stick together fine even with just 5.
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Post by Carl on Dec 13, 2009 14:58:40 GMT -5
I can't imagine that at higher numbers that occur in nature that the even/oddness could possibly matter. Maybe at real low numbers (and I have no idea why if even true) would I even entertain this possibility. Probably a reasonable test would be to see if a school of 5 consistently schools better than a school of 6 and even then it would be somewhat subjective since you'd have to grade the schooling each trial. LOL That is my thought and the reason for my joke Let us know how it goes, we are all here to learn from others. Carl |
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Post by fishfever on Dec 13, 2009 18:23:18 GMT -5
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Post by Carl on Dec 13, 2009 19:18:48 GMT -5
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Post by bikeguy33 on Dec 17, 2009 20:45:16 GMT -5
my humble opinion is a lil different. i feel that the extra agression by adding the extra fish came from every member trying to find a spot in the pecking order. i feel that after a few weeks the order would be made and aggression would go back to semi-peaceful once the pecking order is established...
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Post by fishfever on Dec 21, 2009 20:37:13 GMT -5
This could be very true but seeing new fin nips in the tail fins of the peaceful fish almost every day made it necessary to get them out of there (the fin nips are mostly healed now with the help of time and some Melafix). I did seem to notice a general pecking order from biggest to smallest. Maybe I could have put the group of 6 in a tank by themselves and then reintroduced them back to the other fish in a few weeks... Some of them (mostly females) had really big appetites and it was fun to watch them eat green leafy veggies, steal food pellets from other fish and juggle the pellets while swimming.
The X-rays continue to school together well and are quite playful. They enjoy swimming against the strong flow from the Aqua Via HOB and then allowing the water flow to sweep them across the front of the tank, kind of like a carnival ride. I'll try to make a little video of this if I catch them at this again.
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