Solved: Saltwater filefish, likely bacterial

[hwofnt]

Tank Size: 125 gal long saltwater
Age of the tank: 11 months, LR from previous tank
pH: 7.8-8.2
Ammonia: 0
NitrAtes: 20 ppm even with denitrator
nitrites: 0
GH/KH: 8-9 dKH
Temperature: 79F
Fish:

2 Pencilligerus tassled filefish, 10" (all are incl. tail)each, 1 antennata lionfish 4", 1 A. tormentosum sargassum filefish, 1 percula clown 3", 1 blue-green chromis, 2.8".

Symptoms:

Pencilligerus filefish stopped eating, loses weight, passive, possibly bacterial growth appeared on fins late, frayed fin one day (Sep 18, 09), progressing very fast, after that moved to a hospital tank and started dosing kanamycin. Yesterday was 5th dose, 8 days, suddenly all returned back within several hours, really bad. No ammonia. My next actions?

[hwofnt]

Sorry, my pictures are not at this computer, could not upload attachments. Here they are from photobucket:
Fish before moving to a hospital tank, same now:


Old photo, size comparison with adult chromis:


Frayed right fin, possibly bacteria on the bottom fin:

Yesterday they returned, fish feels bad. No ammonia.

Bulbous transparent growth on the right fin, no progress, no changes:


Edema (puffy) top of the eyes, disappeared after treatment, yesterday started to return back, in lesser degree:

Eyes are not cloudy, checked, this is reflection.

Tail, likely lymphocyctosis(?) that they have since beginning, Nov 08. Slight bacterial dark perimeter, slight fraying in one place. Translucent thing doesn't looks like parasyte. Fish was treated for parasites at arrival.


Hospital tank, 20g long. I don't have the larger one.


Angle of fish is either because of strong frow, 400 gph, or it feels safer seeing own reflection. Fish changes position in low low area to the normal.
Emperor 400 with established wheels from main tank, 1" thick foam inserts, also from the sump of established tank, in place of cartridges, small foam prefilter. Micron pads are before foam, not changed all the treatment - fish is not eating, they are fairly clean. One was replaced yesterday, after that all symptoms returned back, in hours. Fish is listless, tail down, what is unusual.

Daily testing ammonia by API test kit. Once after water change was slight rise (still below the lowest on scale), giving support by Seachem Stability.

Plant was added for moral support: fish is shy and easily spooked (each of 3 I ever own), familiar object pacified it.

First such fish died 2 years ago from the same symptoms, during first kanamycine doses, I couldn't keep hospital tank without ammonia them, but it was low. LR from the tank with this first fish was reused in a new tank, 1.5 yrs after first fish death.

Diagnosis and treatment were done by knowledgeable people at RC forums (lymphocyctosis for these fishes and kanamycin for the first filefish). One of them was keeping the same type of filefish for 8 yrs, it worked for her.

Other fish is unaffected at all, including different genus of filefish. The second pencilligerus filefish in the main tank has lymphocyctosis since beginning too, hint on a black perimete on the tail fin, but no white bacterial spots, has excellent appetite and very active.

[murdock6701]

sorry my friend that I can't be of any help - SW and diseases are not my forte - all I can do is hope you solve the problem and are able to save the fish - good luck!

[hwofnt]

Thanks, but fish passed away this afternoon: stopped moving and stopped breathing, without visible suffering. I checked for flukes ('Mysterious deaths' thread at another forum, no flukes. I'm not doing post mortem, it was like a family member.

Another one is so far so good, other fishes too. Will see, fingers crossed.

[Carl]

Sorry you lost your fish.

I agree with your treatment regimen, but since your fish responded to Kanamycin and then relapsed, you probably may need a stronger regimen that still includes Kanamycin.

Although Nitrofuarazone combines well for difficult cases of bacterial infections (this infection has many symptoms of Columnaris), Nitrofurazone does not perform as well in high pH water.
So my thought would be a combination with Triple Sulfa which works well in high pH water.

As well I would strongly encourage the use of a medicated bath that includes these antibiotics along with Methylene Blue.
This bath would best be performed in tank water where your tank water is used, but in the final 5 minutes, 25-50% of the water is replaced with pH adjusted freshwater.

See Aquarium Answers; Fish Baths

Carl

[hwofnt]

Thank you! I'll add this to my arsenal for the future. I have very limited experience with fish disease: these filefishes and frogfish stopped eating, when UV use solved the problem.
Thanks again.

[Carl]

Sept 28, 2009 9:11:36 GMT -5 hwofnt said:

Thank you! I'll add this to my arsenal for the future. I have very limited experience with fish disease: these filefishes and frogfish stopped eating, when UV use solved the problem.
Thanks again.

I think your good care with excellent equipment is why you are limited in experience with fish disease, so I think this is a compliment!

I have found especially in the early 1990s when I started exercising more strict disease prevention regimens, in particular with my clients that I had less "opportunity" to try out new treatments or methods that would become available, so I had to set up control groups and introduce disease (which is something I did not like doing to the fish, but was the only way to learn).

Even now, I use my friends (including my brother-in-law who owns my old service business) to test new products or theories, problem is they do not have the time to set up control groups to purposefully introduce sick fish, so often these new tests can take a long time since they exercise excellent disease prevention methods and sick fish are few and far between.

Carl