Difference between Columnaris and Fungal?

[sammiesam]

Tank Size: 20 gal
Age of the tank: 3 ishyears
pH:
Ammonia:
NitrAtes:
nitrites:
GH/KH:
Temperature: 80ish
Fish:

Serpae Tetra

Symptoms:

Okay yes I know the actual difference as one being a bacteria mimicking the signs and symptoms of a true fungal infection.

But how do you tell which one is which. I have a tetra right now, if any of you remember me saying earlier when I posted about the new gourami I got that died. It started with a white pimple on its side.

Well it got a couple more and I treated with a general cure anti-biotic for bacteria. (general cure by API) for a week, he seemed a bit better but not really. So I left it, a couple days later I was debating fungal so I just treated with melafix, since it is only tea tree I thought this would be a little less harsh. It seemed like the actual marks on his body got better for a bit. But now he looks bad again and his color is faded alot.
He has white sort of fluff or whatever you would call it on his body in patches and a dark spot on one side like a bruise. But his hunger is fine, he is just being really shy and hides when I come near....so this being said a picture is out of the question.

All the other fish are fine though besides one swordtail has shown a white pimple now and his tail seems to be shorter, I dunno if it got bitten off in a little battle with the other sword or if its from whatever I have in my tank.

Anyways, how do you tell if its one or the other, as when I look up info on them...they seem so similiar but they are two different treatments.

So the other problem is that I am going out of town tomorrow.
I have to I can't stay to watch over the tank. My grandma and sister will both keep and eye on them and look after them for me and my sister will do a water change for me while I am gone (no vac or anything just straight water change)
But if I get any suggestions by the end of the night tonight I can start treatment and get them to continue it for me, but if I don't before I leave then they will hae to wait until i get back in almost two weeks.

But anyways let me know guys what you think.

[sammiesam]

So after a meth bath tonight, it got rid of the bits of fuz on him so I could see better and it looks like he has raised lesions. Like wounds but they are raised, like they are pushing up from under the scales. He is pretty pale as well.

[stix0504]

I can't tell you the difference but since no one has been able to respond yet I can offer a suggestion. Do you have any kanaplex? I believe it can treat both fungal and bacterial.

[fishfever]

I don't know if Carl will check this board before leaving on vacation but having just successfully treated a platy for Colunaris I can say that in my case I used twice daily salt/PP baths to treat it. I also swabbed with MB after one of the baths before returning the fish to the tank. I also used Pimafix at least every other day in the main tank. It took a couple weeks and it was slow but I saw progress so I kept it up. In my case, the Columnaris was a flat white patch (not raised) and it looked like the skin had been eaten away. I also increased the salt level in my tank and dropped the tank temp down to 76.5 (lowest my heater would go).

As far as telling the difference between Columnaris and Saproleginia?, I believe Saproleginia has small hair-like growths if viewed under a magnifying glass so it would probably have a raised appearance but I'm no expert on this stuff, sorry. Most likely your tetra is pale because he is under stress right now. I've seen some of mine go pale when their mood isn't so good.

[Carl]

Fishfever answered this already, but I will add some more.

Often many fungal (Saprolegnia) treatments will not work for Columnaris, however many Columnaris treatments can also help for Saprolegnia.
I have found that Nitrofurazone (Furan 2) works well for Saprolegnia (Fungus) and is helpful for Columnaris. Kanaplex (Kanamycin) is generally more effective for Columnaris, but combined with Furan 2 is often quite effective for both infections.

It is noteworthy that Melafix is not truly effective for either since it is primarily gram positive and Columnaris is a gram negative bacterium & Saprolegnia (fungus) responds better to most gram negative treatments (although it is not a bacterium).
As Fishfever noted, Pimafix is the better choice for mild organic treatments.
As well I have second Fishfevers points about the use of a medicated bath, as this can help for both (potassium permanganate is often a better choice for said baths than Methylene Blue as also already noted by FF). The problem is PP is getting nearly impossible to find due to government restrictions (it can be used to make explosives, although not in the liquid form often sold to aquarists).

Increasing salt and mineral cations, as well as lowering temperatures is helpful in treating both.

Finally try using a magnifying glass to look for the tale-tell hair like growths of Saprolegnia (Fungus)

See this article:
Columnaris/Fungus

Carl

[sammiesam]

Thanks guys for getting back to me so quickly, sorry to put you in a rush.

I am leaning now more towards fungal than bacteria but I have kanaplex here and I am going to petland today for frozen food before I take off anyways so I will pick up some pimafix and furan 2.
I will get my gma and sister to treat the tank for me, hopefully everything goes alright while I am gone.

As for the PP...you are right carl it is impossible to find, specially in canada. I asked once at a downtown fish place and she just stared at me like I was crazy and asked what the heck I was using it for. So I thought meth. baths were better than nothing at all for the time being as it generally helps with O2 absorption and whatever else right?

Thanks guys, I will run to the store right now.

[fishfever]

If treating in the main tank with stronger meds (not Pimafix but maybe others), it might be a good idea to have sis monitor ammonia and other water parameters to make sure they stay in check. And probably have something like "Prime" other other neutralizer handy just in case they start creeping up.

[sammiesam]

I always use prime in my tanks anyways and I think it will be fine.
I have decided to not use the Furan 2 while I am away because it requires alot more attention and more water changes than I want to leave my sister with.
I am just using Kanaplex while I am gone and have had good success with this medication and I find that it isn't as intense as some other ones. So I think this will be better for them.

I also added a medicated wondershell and a bit more aquarium salt, and dropped the temperature a tiny bit.

I think they will be okay while i am gone. My grandma takes good care of them even though she tells me how she hates them lol.

Thanks guys I will update you when I get home or if I get any news from my sister or grandma while I am away.

[sammiesam]

Hey guys,
I am back in town. The poor guy doesn't look great but my sister took good care of him and she said he is better than he was a couple days ago.

I really am not sure on what this could be. He doesn't really have much white on him anymore, a couple spots on his eyes and face. But he has like....ulcers along his sides, like his skins eaten away kind of.

I didn't treat with Furan 2 because it was a little complicated since i was going away so I have only been treating with kanaplex and my sister gave him a couple meth and salt baths which she said seemed to help.
I am going to do a water change tonight and start the Furan 2 treatment. Any other ideas?

[goldenpuon]

It sounds most to me like Columnaris because I heard ulcers often develop when your fish has this. Of course I could be wrong but that is my educated guess. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[sammiesam]

So apparently Nemo my orange swordtail died, I dunno when probably the day before I came home because he looked like he'd been dead for awhile. Unexpected....He didn't seem sick at all so I dunno what to think

I am treating for columnaris anyways with furan 2 and the tiny bit left i have of kanaplex, need to order some more through carl. I'll let you guys know what happens in a couple days