Shimmeys

[goldenpuon]

Tank Size: 6-7 gallons
Age of the tank: over 1 year
pH:
Ammonia:
NitrAtes:
nitrites:
GH/KH:
Temperature: 77 F
Fish:

The first signs I saw of it was when a young male in my male-guppy tank suddenly looked weak one morning with clamped fins. He had a yellow tail. He stayed at the top and would just sit there. I did nothing thinking he would recover but I was wrong and after 2 weeks he died. I thought it was just stress and no other fish seemed to get it (other than a male who sat with him at the top a few days and then went back to normal).

So I added 5 females to breed with them under a week later in hopes of breeding them. I removed them after a few days fearing there was some disease in the male tank when one of the females (also with a yellow tail) started sitting at the top.

The female that did this in the male guppy tank continued staying at the top a lot once I returned her to the female guppy tank. I found her one morning dead about a week ago. Soon the other females started clamping their fins slightly (off and on) and I put a towel over their tank to try to darken their tank/try to destress them. At this point I was still unsure of what was wrong. It seemed to help a somewhat. My youngest female in there and another yellow tailed female clamped their fins the most.

This morning, I realized something was very wrong with them when the yellow tailed female and the young one were at the top. I had to leave for work and there was nothing I could do at that moment. So when I got home I called Carl and told me that they had shimmeys. He advised me to drop medicated wondershells in there and I did along with a small water change. I think Carl has me on the right track but any further help is appreciated. I will let you know how it goes.

I am very unhappy about that my guppies came down with this. I should have realized that my fish were sick sooner.

Symptoms:

Clamping fins, sitting at the top.

The young female and the yellow tailed female also seem unusually thin.

[babygeige]

How many fish are in the tank? It kind of sounds like it might be a water quality issue to me.
Is there any salt in there? Maybe a little bit of salt will help...

[goldenpuon]

They have roughly a tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons. I currently have 6 females left in the tank. Before I had 10 or so. I don't think water quality is an issue. I do siphoning every week and the tank (actually container) has no gravel. I have a sponge filter in there as well and everytime I test the numbers come out fine so I doubt it. Thanks for the help though Babygeige. I am very low on test strips right no but if I suspect anything is wrong with the water I will test it.

For an update on them, I culled the young female and the yellow tailed female in alka selzer who were doing very poorly in hopes they wouldn't spread the shimmeys faster since I heard it is contagious. This dropped the number of fish I had in there from 8 to 6 yesterday. I have the container covered with towels to decrease the light levels for the fish. Carl told me this makes the progression of shimmey's slower but does not cure it. It seems to be helping (along with the wondershells too probably) and none of the fish are at the top. When I lift the towel off their container a bit to look at them, their fins are unclamped and they are very alert. Thinsg are looking better for how they're doing today compared to yesterday.

[fishfever]

I'm glad your fish are doing better.. I had only heard of shimmys with mollies (seems like alot of them at the LFS have this) but I guess any livebearer can get it as well. I'm curious what this alka selzer thing you keep mentioning is. I guess it's a humane way of putting a fish down? I haven't been keeping fish long enough to have to do this but I'd like to know the details for future reference. Thanks.

[goldenpuon]

They are doing better. I lifted the cover off the tank to see them begging me for food and swimming all over the place with their fins unclamped.

Guppies can get shimmeys as well. I think that all livebearers can get this as far as I know.

Alka selzer and clove oil are both considered humane ways to cull fish. I typically use alka selzer since it is a lot cheaper. I typically had 2 tablets of alka selzer to a quart container of water. Adding too little can make the fish take much longer to die. It works (I believe by carbon dioxide poisoning) and dulls the fish's senses so they don't feel a thing. Mine do tend to jump the first few second they are in there but they calm down after that. It can take 1 1/2 hours or more for them to die depending on the health and size of the fish. When they appear dead, it does not necessarily mean they are. If you take them out too soon, I have heard tey can "wake up". So keeping them in there a while even after they look dead is a good idea. I hope that helps explain it.

Carl also has an article that explain it in some detail.

[fishfever]

Thanks, I'll have to remember this for future reference. Hopefully won't have to do this very often. When other livebearers get the shimmys, do they nod their head from side to side like mollies do? I've seen some real bad cases at the LFS where the the molly would constantly swing it's head back and forth pretty violently like some invisible fish was slapping him left and right!

[bikeguy33]

since nothing else is effected....my guess is a bad yellow line. always try for the obvious first.

[goldenpuon]

What is a bad yellow line?

An update on the fish, nono of them clamp their fins unless I take the towels off the tank and make it light it up by putting the aquarium light on. They're all eating well and no more of them have needed culling or died. So far, so good...

[babygeige]

I believe Bill is referring to the yellow strain of guppies you have. Possibly too much line breeding trying to achieve the yellow tail, which would make them more susceptible to illness.

I'm glad they are showing signs of improvement.

[goldenpuon]

Oh, that's what you mean. Yeah the yellow tailed ones seem to be the ones that are most heavily affected.

If they are a bad line, would it still be ok to breed the yellow tailed ones as long as I mix them with other color varieties so they are less prone to get it?

[murdock6701]

I wouldn't pass on any poor genetics - it will lead to weaker immune systems and poorer quality fish

[Carl]

Shimmys is a guess that fits many of your fish' symptoms, but it in itself is more of a "collection of symptoms" or causes that can have more than one cause (somewhat similar to how Septicemia is more a symptom than a specific disease).

I have found "Shimmys" most common in the Genus: "Poecilia" which includes Mollies and Guppies , although I believe it can be observed in other livebearers as well, I have just not observed it as much in these others (such as Platys, Swords).

I have done no controlled studies (nor read any) on the subject of Shimmys, so my observations are anecdotal. These observations include what have already been noted here and that these symptoms seem most common to:
* Poecilia fish,
*Poor positive mineral ion levels (calcium/magnesium in particular) in the aquarium
*A Flagellate similar to Velvet (or possibly Velvet itself) seems to display as this type of symptom in fish from the genus Poecilia & other livebearers (the typical shimmying behavior)
*Genetics, especially over breeding/crowding or poor genes seems to play a role as well IME.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks guys for explaining more on Shimmeys. I still have 1 yellow tailed female left and that's it. I'm hoping she's from another line of yellow tails since she survived. Also I hope that the two females were born in my house are not descendents of the yellow tailed fish. Two of them are pregnant from when I bred them before I knew they had this. I'll have to be really selective with the fish I keep if I allow their babies to survive since I don't want any genetically weak fish.

To prevent this since one of the causes can be lack of calcium is I will add some crushed up wondershell every week after I remove the medicated ones I am using now. I add SeaChem buffer with every water change as well so they should be covered as far as minerals go. But of course if you guys have any more advice for what I can do, I'm open to it.

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As for an update on how the fish are doing, none of them are clamping anymore. Even when I totally took off the towels and siphoned out their tank (which is stressful to them), they didn't show any signs of shimmeys. I'm hoping to take out their medicated wondershells in a few days and gradually increase the light levels in their tank.