Problems with 2 Goldfish

[goldenpuon]

Tank Size: Oranda: 10 gallons, Alden: 40 gallons
Age of the tank: Oranda's tank: 3 1/2 years, Alden's tank: about 8-9 months
pH: around 6.8-7.0 last time tested
Ammonia: Not tested
NitrAtes: Not tested
nitrites: Not tested
GH/KH: GH: about 200 KH: about 100-130 last time tested
Temperature: 70 F
Fish:

Kind of Fish: Feeder goldfish.

Oranda is in the 10 gallon with Puon. She has had this over 6 months, small bags on he eyes like a fancy goldfish. When I got her she didn't have it and it doesn't seem to be causing her any harm but I just wanted to make sure. She is supposedly a comet but because she is a feeder her genetics are unknown so she may be part fancy goldfish.

Alden is in a 40 gallon with 7 other feeder goldfish. I have grown rather concerned about Alden. Her problem has also been going on about 9 months (started 9 months ago). It started as some white spots that looked too big to be ich (not ich I tried treating for it with Paraguard and nothing happened) on her fins before I moved her to the 40. Then it kept disappearing and appearing in new places. As of today I do not see any on her. For some time now, she's had a dark gold vertical mark (possibly a wound or maybe just coloration). Today I noticed a small wound around the paired fins (ventrical fins?) on her underside. Aztec, another goldfish in with her had a wound in the same area previously about a year ago and it disappeared with no trace 2 days later. The area by Alden's right gill cover is pink though they are no signs of gill parasites or rapid breathing. She has been active for the most part but has seemed a little stressed during the afternoon.

For Alden I just bought Hikari Brine Shrimp with Spirulina and I was thinking of soaking some Neomycin in it or other meds if this is an internal bacterial infection

Symptoms:

Oranda: Small sacs on eyes

Alden: pinkish area by gill cover, small wound on underside, dark mark, reappearing and disappearing white areas on fins.

Video Of Oranda as of today during feeding time: s457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/?action=view¤t=100_3493.flv

Pictures of Oranda as of about 2 weeks ago:
i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3387.jpg

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3389-1.jpg

Video of Alden as of Today during feeding time:

s457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/?action=view¤t=100_3490.flv

s457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/?action=view¤t=100_3492.flv

Pictures of Alden as of Today: (symtoms I described don't show up too well)

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3444.jpg

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3446.jpg

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3450.jpg

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3451.jpg

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3455.jpg

i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/goldenpuon/100_3468.jpg



I took about an hour to get these. i tried many camera modes but the pictures still ended up being of poor quality. Sorry about that.

[goldenpuon]

I wanted to clarify a few things. When I said Oranda has had this over 6 months, I mean the sacs on her eyes started to develop then. It started as just cloudy lenses, then the sacs got bigger and have remained about the same size for about 3 months now.

And for Alden, I meant the spots or white discolorations started appearing 9 months ago. I know that statement may have been confusing considering it normally doesn't take most diseases anywhere near that long to progress but in this case it has, which is part of the reason I am wondering what exactly is going on. There has been slow progression since the white spots/discolorations started, like the dark mark that might be an injury, then the pinkness near the gills, then the wound on her underside. She still seems pretty healthy, particularly when she is excited during feeding time.

All my fish are much less active in the afternoon vs. dawn and dusk when they know they are being fed. I will try to get a video of Alden tomorrow afternoon. She was very active in the video because she was just fed but in the afternoon it is generally not the case. (sorry if her activeness was confusing with me saying she was sick). So when I get a video of her then, it might show better how she is doing keeping in mind that all of my fish tend to be much slower at this time.

So what I am wondering is if Oranda's sacs on her eyes are something to worry about, what is wrong with Alden, and what to use to treat.

Thanks guys. Sorry if there was any confusion. I am not very good at explaining things sometimes.

[goldenpuon]

This morning I briefly looked over Alden. The wound on her underside is now is a red mark and looks a lot better. As I mentioned earlier Aztec had this a wound in exactly the same area and it totally disappeared in 2 days. I just wonder is causing this

[bikeguy33]

the wound is probably a scrape and it will heal naturally in a healthy fish.as for the sacs under the eyes with the cloudy eyes...this does sound like the start of popeye. when i have more time i`ll look through the pics and vids and see if i can come up with something else. popeye takes along time to become fatal...but we need to figure out why it happened...

[Carl]

I did not see anything specific, if you can possibly get a close up.

As Bill stated & I noted in your phone call, keeping healthy fish via water conditions is probably your best coarse of action.
Mild medications such as Melafix and/or salt baths/dips may also be a secondary coarse of action.

One thought (that I think I mentioned before), and that is looking at his body shape (especially the middle area) is he has genetic "issues".
I have seen this before many times with feeders/comets, as many are bred in poor conditions and as well many are also rejects from "bad stock".
I know this may seem harsh as I know how much you care for your fish, however it is important for you to know that in his case the best you can do is simply provide the best water conditions and food possible, but beyond that, there is not a medication available than can fix a genetic problem.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks guys. Bill, oranda has had the sacs and cloudy eyes for over 6 months. That is why I wonder if it is really popeye or just a genetic defect or caused from being kept in poor condition as a younger fish.

And no problem Carl, you weren't harsh. I knew these fish were not good stock when I got them. While they are healthy, I know they are far well taken care of before I ahd them. I got them to save lives even if they do have some deformities. I chose them over the better quality goldfish when I got them to try to rescue them. I have no problem with them not being the best. I am curious though what is wrong with Alden's middle section if don't mind me asking? She isn't and never has been as round there like she should be like most of my other goldfish which is my guess at what is wrong, a middle, structural deformity.

I cannot seem to get any closer up with my camera. I was on my knees yesterday for an hour fooling with camera settings an trying to get good video of Oranda and Alden as well as pictures. I might be able to try again tomorrow but today I am really busy unfortunately.

I will be continueing to vary their diet. I have been feeding them Hikari Goldfish Pellets and Spirulina 20 for a while now. I also bought Aqueon Goldfish Flakes and Hikari Spirulina Brine Shrimp (as an occasional treat) a few days ago to further vary their diet and have given it to them since.

Thanks for the advice guys. It's a big help.

Renee

[Carl]

I am curious though what is wrong with Alden's middle section if don't mind me asking? She isn't and never has been as round there like she should be like most of my other goldfish which is my guess at what is wrong, a middle, structural deformity.

You are correct.

I have seen this exact appearance many times before, and this has always been indicative of a weak fish, likely due to poorly formed internal organs.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks Carl. Alden is healthy enough right now so I'm not going to worry about it too much, just give her the best life possible, best water and diet like you said. Right now she is active and growing. She's had this since I got her over 3 years ago. So with any luck, she'll last another 3.