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Post by brenda on Mar 30, 2009 10:55:46 GMT -5
Tank Size: Age of the tank: pH: Ammonia: NitrAtes: nitrites: GH/KH: Temperature: Fish: Symptoms: This is a guy I sent some of my Chromogynos babies too about 3 weeks ago. These guys were in with all my peacock fry who went to TX and are doing great. The other 3 Chromo's are also doing great and this male has been fine until the last couple days. Here is what the guys is saying are his symptoms...
one of my vics looks very weak and isnt eating... just laying on the bottom of the tank... ive been watching and its not getting beat up or anything seems to be left alone but what i did notice is he's opening his mouth quickly a few times in a row. big like almost yawns.... kinda looks like hes choking....is that possible? theres no way he'd be choking on his food and inside his mouth i dont see any gravel!
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Post by jonv on Mar 30, 2009 12:21:20 GMT -5
Tank Size: Age of the tank: pH: Ammonia: NitrAtes: nitrites: GH/KH: Temperature: Fish: Symptoms: This is a guy I sent some of my Chromogynos babies too about 3 weeks ago. These guys were in with all my peacock fry who went to TX and are doing great. The other 3 Chromo's are also doing great and this male has been fine until the last couple days. Here is what the guys is saying are his symptoms...
one of my vics looks very weak and isnt eating... just laying on the bottom of the tank... ive been watching and its not getting beat up or anything seems to be left alone but what i did notice is he's opening his mouth quickly a few times in a row. big like almost yawns.... kinda looks like hes choking....is that possible? theres no way he'd be choking on his food and inside his mouth i dont see any gravel!
Brenda, if this were a new arrival doing these things, it would appear like they didn't get acclimated long enough would be my first guess. At 3 weeks time though, that can't be the case. It would be helpful is this person listed the entire stock in the tank and the tank size. It's possible there is still aggression or stress in there that is not seen. For example, lately the Pytcho's in that 100 gallon tank are not actively chasing the Fulu out as much as before, and I have a feeling that is due to the fry being bigger and the parents are letting them on their own more and more, BUT the Fulu's still only stay on the left side of that tank only. I know this is adding some stress to them, and it's not an active chase anymore, but they are being kept on the side of the tank due to the presence of the Pytcho's. There could be something starting to alter in the water chemistry of that person's tank too. Perhaps a recent filter cleaning and there was some bacterial loss?
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Post by brenda on Mar 30, 2009 12:33:49 GMT -5
Well, I do know his tank is a 29 gallon and all he has in it is 5 small kyoga (2” at most) and then the 4 Chromogynos I had sent him. (1 ½” at most) He said this male was dominant (which he always was in my little tank as well) and even in his weakened state nobody was bothering him. I don’t know the details on his water. Maybe, I will tell him to do a 50% water change…It can’t hurt and see if he has tested his water.
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Post by jonv on Mar 30, 2009 13:12:09 GMT -5
At that age/size too Brenda, it's still a balancing act in terms of the gender, so while the dominant one was strong, if something happend, even like say bumped up against a rock or the decor, and got a bit weak, if there is another male in there, they are more likely to step up and take over, which can cause some stress on the one that's a bit weaker now.
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Post by Carl on Mar 30, 2009 13:50:52 GMT -5
Before I even read Jon's response, acclimation was my first thought as well. Although there are other possibilities, i would first focus on this possibility. Can you find out his parameters? When the fish arrived, the pH may have been considerably lower than what you originally sent (for shipments over 24 hours I will use wonder shell fragments in the shipping bag/container, however these help more with mineralization than pH control) Besides the water change, I would strongly urge a bath using Methylene Blue to aid with gill damage. As well Melafix or Usnea in the tank/baths can help in healing too. This article may be helpful for him as well: Aquarium Answers; Fish ShippingCarl
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Post by brenda on Mar 30, 2009 14:06:13 GMT -5
Would acclimation affect them 3 weeks almost a month after the fact? He had said they were very feisty upon arrival and have been doing awesome, then out of no where this. Carl (or anyone) I have had some other friends losing fish lately that normally don’t…including myself…I have heard stories of things changing in the tap water at certain times of year and people losing fish and not knowing why. Have you ever heard of this and do you think that is a possibility?
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Post by Carl on Mar 30, 2009 15:38:43 GMT -5
Would acclimation affect them 3 weeks almost a month after the fact? He had said they were very feisty upon arrival and have been doing awesome, then out of no where this. Carl (or anyone) I have had some other friends losing fish lately that normally don’t…including myself…I have heard stories of things changing in the tap water at certain times of year and people losing fish and not knowing why. Have you ever heard of this and do you think that is a possibility? Yes, I have documented cases of 4 weeks for kidney and gill damage to cause death (mostly in Marine fish though) This is generally caused from ammonia though, as pH acclimation problems usually shows immediately, however even with pH acclimation the osmoregulation stressors can allow for kidney damage that is permanent. As for tap water changes, this is possible, although this is usually a summer problem when many municipal water companies switch from chlorine to chloramines. This switch can really catch many aquarists off guard and kill their fish, as many will not practice water management methods that are good for use with water treated with chloramines. HOWEVER, before I panic persons here, this is mostly used in summer and then generally in dry climate cities (generally in the SW USA) that import water over great distances. The symptoms can describe chloramine exposure, so he might check his local water company, especially if he is an area experiencing drought. See this article: Aquarium Answers; Tap WaterCarl
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Post by bikeguy33 on Mar 30, 2009 17:59:00 GMT -5
i know of some cities that have considerable ph chanes from spring to fall, calgary being one of them. i spoke with the gov`t water manaement board. ours is due to our resourvior being laregely fed by mountain run off in the spring, where in the fall it is all river fed. so in my opinion...ph shock could possibly be at least in part the problem
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Post by brenda on Apr 18, 2009 23:52:43 GMT -5
Well, it has been 2 weeks and the fish seems to be doing better. I really have to commend this guy for trying so hard to save 1 little baby fish. The fish is back to eating and seems to be doing well. I am still cautiously optimistic, but I do hope he makes it. Do you think whatever he had would cause a lot of internal damage?
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Post by Carl on Apr 19, 2009 10:39:37 GMT -5
Well, it has been 2 weeks and the fish seems to be doing better. I really have to commend this guy for trying so hard to save 1 little baby fish. The fish is back to eating and seems to be doing well. I am still cautiously optimistic, but I do hope he makes it. Do you think whatever he had would cause a lot of internal damage? It can. My experience (anecdotal though), is that gill damage never completely heals (due to scar tissue), however the liver can heal itself quite well, assuming the damage was not "past the point of no return". Since one of the tasks of the liver is de-detoxifying poisons, removing the causes can eventually help return this organ to normal. The kidneys can also recover depending upon damage. What I am trying to say is that I have seen fish that have had damage from ammonia, chloramines, cyanide, etc. recover with little discernible damage, other times I have seen fish recover but the fish is very sensitive/weak from this point on, and finally other times the fish may simply die a slow death. I want to emphasize that my points are based on many observations, BUT these were anecdotal observations where little good scientific studies of tissue were conducted, so please take it as anecdotal information. As well this is based on the assumption that the problem was from acclimation, or water poisoning of some kind, we could simply be totally wrong in our guesses here as well. Carl
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