Possible Guppy problem

[goldenpuon]

I seem to be experiencing sem problems with my female guppies. First fo all, I have found 2 mysteriously dead in the past 4 weeks. They were both fine and eating the day before and the next dead. One died with its mouth pretty far open (from 4 weeks ago) and the other one died with no strange symtoms (about 2 weeks ago). Both died during the night and I could tell they were had just died within hours of me finding them by how their bodies looked. The rest acted fine and showed no signs of problems. After the second fish died, I added some fragments of the large regular shell to their tank.

My guess on this is it may somehow be related to their location which was on the floor in a dim area before I moved them today to the dresser with a T-2 light I got from Carl. I hadn't realized what was going on until today, which I am not happy about. They were very scared where they were kept and every time I'd siphon out their tank weekly, they would curl their tails (a sign of stress in guppies), hide, and sit on the bottom on around a corner motionless as if in a trance. But a little after their water change, especially when I fed them, they were back to normal and eating vigoriously. Another thing I think scared them (probably the main thing that set them off) is how often I went in there and netted out babies or put females in my breeding trap. The net and watched a member of their school being isolated seemed to greatly upset them. Their color was faded as well (my guess is it is stress related.) I once asked about this by phone with either Bill or Carl but I didn't explain it well or go into enough detail and was told they were fine due to giving lack of info. I never thought of how I never explained it well enough when I was on the phone a while back until today so my guppies were left like this for quite some time.

Today I noticed one of the females breathing rapidly. I decided that I could not let this go on any longer and looked for a new place to put their 5 gallon container. The rest seem fine so I am guessing it is stress. . Luckily, she is eating and acting normally otherwise. I will wait and see for her and keep a very close eye on her

I tested the water and got:

Nitrate: around 5
Nitrite: 0
PH: around 7.0
GH: 150
KH: 120
Chlorine: 0

My guppies are in a 5 gallon plastic container with a heater set to about 74 F, a hydro sponge filter, and fake plants, and now a T-2 light that I am also using for my 10 gallon with 2 goldfish. The light is not situated the best it could be with the height difference of the 2 bodies of water and the fact that I don't have much of a see through covering for either but it is much better than it was. I am very unhappy with myself for letting this go on for so long and not realizing really what was going on all this time. I got the female guppies including the ones that died over 6 months ago. There is also 1 in there I bought over 9 months ago and 3 that I didn't buy but were born at my house.


Any advice about those 2 myserious deaths is appreciated! Thanks!


Renee

[murdock6701]

1st of all, getting them off the floor is a good start - you live in a trailer if I am not mistaken - cooler floor temp and lack of adequate lighting could be 2 possible contributors to a bad situation IMO - good luck!

[goldenpuon]

Thanks. I just fed them. I think they're starting to enjoy their new home. Their 5 gallon looks a lot better on the dresser and will be easier to clean.

[eve]

What is or was their temperature in their tank all this time???

what is the ammonia reading in this tank???

how much, how often and what do you feed them???

what is the water change schedule???

[goldenpuon]

The temperature is set to 73 F. I will check the therometer reading throughout the day for the next few days to see if there is any fluctuation.

I'm pretty sure that the ammonia is 0. I'll have to test it to be sure.

I probably overfeed a little but I try to keep it to 2 small feedings daily.

I change 25-33% of their water per week plus I vacum.

[eve]

73 is really really low, and if the tank was on the floor then it was even lower at night, which means that that is most likely the cause of their stress

i suggest turning up the temperature to at least 78 degrees if at all possible
but do it slowly and gradually over the next 24 hours

i think they will color up much more once you do that


do you use any aquarium salt in this tank?

[goldenpuon]

I just tested the ammonia and got a reading of almost 0.5. Since it is so dark already so here, to see the reading on the test strip, I put it under the aquarium T-2 light to see it. I hope that didn't affect the reading. I added some Prime to help bring down the ammonia. I will also look at my cleaning regime to see what is the problem and test it again in a couple days.

I also looked and saw the temperature was set to 76 F but the thermometer only read around 73. The thermoter is a stick on but accurate within a few degrees. I uped the temperature to about 78 on the heater since it was already set to 76 F (I hope that isn't too drastic).

And yes, there is salt in the tank, maybe a a teaspoon per 5 gallons.

[eve]

nope, that's not to drastic at all, that's perfect

just watch how high the temperature gets


just a little bit of ammonia, as you have it can make them stress, so keep a watch on that

when, how often and how much salt do you put back into the tank?

[goldenpuon]

I put in probably less than I am told to. That's why I'd say I have about a teaspoon in the 5 gallon instead of a tabelspoon like the box says to put in.

I personally have found guppies very senstive to water parameters. The ammonia is probably the biggest problem plus if the tank was cycling and I didn't know it, no wonder some died. In my experience, fish are also more nervous and don't act like themselves when there is high ammonia/nitrites. The tank has been up and running 6 months now. I don't have an excess of mulm because I remove any every week. Maybe it is some sort of mini-cycle.

[eve]

yes, guppies are extremly sensitive to ammonia

it's possible, did you change anything, like a filter pad which could cause it to do a mini cycle?


as for the salter, remember that you only take out 25% of the salt when doing a 25% water change

which means you would only put 1/4 teaspoon back in when refilling the tank

[Carl]

As already has been addressed getting them off the floor was a very good first step, as the floor is going to radiate cool temperatures into the tank, especially at night, and especially in a mobile home with often less floor insulation.

The ammonia issue has been well covered so I will not had any more there.

Besides what Eve said about water changes and salt, I would add that for guppies that are weak, I would recommend 1 teaspoon per gallon (or even more), not per 5 gallons (guppies can tolerate salt often to marine levels when adjusted slowly).

Your GH is also likely to low for guppies. The key word is likely since as I tried to emphasize in my latest GH, KH, etc. article update, what you test in GH and what you have as bio available calcium and other mineral cations is often two different things. So to be safe I would aim for a MINIMUM of 200 ppm for guppies.

Carl

[goldenpuon]

Thanks guys. I know I shouldn't but I normally rinse my sponge filter in tapwater. I have tried it in water from the tank and it never really helped clean the sponge. It just made the fish water I was cleaning it in (removed from the tank of course) look dirty. I think I have found the problem. I cannot be doing that anymore.

How do I clean off the sponge in tank water and actually make it cleaner? I have never had success with this. That is why I've always used water from the tap.

[Carl]

Feb 5, 2009 20:25:23 GMT -5 goldenpuon said:

How do I clean off the sponge in tank water and actually make it cleaner? I have never had success with this. That is why I've always used water from the tap.

I simply fill a pitcher or bucket with tank water or you can fill a sink with tap and add a de-chlorinator (stir around and wait a minute first)
Either way it is basically a matter of squeezing the sponge in and out until it is reasonably clean, it does not need to be perfectly clean.

See this article as well in the "Care" section:
Sponge Filtration

Carl

[kagome]

How old is your stick on thermometer? I have found that these wear out after a while and aren't as accurate after a few years. Do you have a floating thermometer in another tank that you could dip in there for a few minutes to make sure the stick on is reading accurately?

With cleaning the sponge filter I do it just like Carl says. With something like that you don't want it to be truly "clean" at least not the way we think of clean for things like dishes or clothes or something of that nature. Clean for a sponge filter pretty much just means getting the surface gunk off and making sure there isn't build up that will restrict the flow. You don't want it too clean because even if the nitrifying bacteria could survive the cleaning (which they can't) you would take away so much of their food supply so radically that would mess them up as well.

[goldenpuon]

Thanks for the help. I will try doing it with tank water because when I clean the sponge is normally when I do water changes. I realized that my tets of ammonia may also have been slightly inaccurate. I was reading the instruction and it said after dipping the strip in to IMMEDIETELY compare to the colors of the side of the ammonia test kit bottle. I waited about a minute plus I put the strip under lighting which dired it out faster. My guess is the ammonia was between 0 and 0.5 now that I see the possiblity of error.

Just to be more sure of this, does putting a test strip under bright lighting (such as a T-2 light) make the reading in accurate because th ligth dries the strip out quicker?

Today I came home to find all my guppies scared in a corner. I fed them a little bit (less than a normal feeding, I will feed them much less than normal if I feed them again tonight) to maybe get them active and now they are actively swimming/looking for food. What wonders food can do if used in moderation! lol