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Post by jonv on Jan 28, 2009 0:23:17 GMT -5
Well I was scanning over the aquabid auctions just to see who's selling what, and found a guy selling those Matumbi Hunters. He's over in NY and said PU only. I mailed him to ask like hey I'm just over in NJ you know, but he said he had no Hypno and breather bags. So I'm thinking do I want to drive over to the Bronx for this?
So the guy mails me back, as I've seemed to get this luck of late, says if I want them he'll hold them, give him a call. So I said what the hell why not. I start talking to this guy, Vinny, and man, he's one hell of a keeper. He's got tanks all over his 3 room place, mostly Mbuna though. He does however have some Yellow Bellies and a few Vics. So basically in the end, he says, if you want, take the extra male I have, I'll give you the male female pair, extra male, 50.00. Not to shabby considering how rare these guys are. But there's more!
So we start talking more and more and basically he says I'll take the auction off right now, if you give me your word. Done. So he starts telling me about his 30 years in the trade, and this basically is his job. I ask him if he's got experience with Madagascars, and he doesn't BUT now here's the big one. He's personal friends for 10 years with Dr. P. Loiselle! No chit for real! So I start asking what he thinks would be best to do with those Oligocanthus, and Vinny starts mailing Dr. Loiselle for me over the phone. Look I know people can say and do whatever on the internet, and on the phone too, but this guy is not a bs'er I can tell.
Turns out as Vinny is looking over my email about Pytchochromis Oligocanthus, he's like hey wait a second....turns out, he's got a nice 3 inch full grown adult female that he's been trying to unload for weeks, even asking Dr. Loiselle what to do about it. So Vinny says hey you know what, when you come pick up the Hunters, you can have that for free!! Man what a score I tell you. A great deal on a very rare species in the hobby, a free female, a possible phone conversation with Dr. Loiselle when I go over, he's got wild caught Yellow labs, and a few other Victorians, and this guy really likes talking to me!! Damn is it like a super Chinese New Year luck or what? WOW. I'm planning on going over on Friday. Gonna get hit with some chit weather tomorrow, so I'll wait till it clears up.
I figure it makes no sense to bs that much over a 50.00 sale you know? Plus you get there talk things over, get these fish, why would the guy lie if you going to his place to pick up? What luck I tell you.
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Post by jonv on Jan 28, 2009 0:35:46 GMT -5
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Post by bikeguy33 on Jan 28, 2009 0:37:05 GMT -5
congrats bud.......sounds a great score....give the doc my number....lol
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Post by brenda on Jan 28, 2009 10:17:52 GMT -5
That is awesome Jon...Keep us updated and get pics of the fish when you get them!!!
Dr Loiselle is amazing from what I've heard. Barbara just recently met him. He spoke for their club back in November or so. I think Greg Steeves deals with him quite a little. This is why Barbara is SO lucky to be located where she is. That would be awesome Jon if you can get personal info from him thru this guy!!! Definitely keep me posted...How exciting!!!
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Post by kagome on Jan 28, 2009 10:45:14 GMT -5
That sounds like the deal of the century! Congrats! Definitely post pictures!
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Post by barbara on Jan 28, 2009 11:51:29 GMT -5
I did get to meet Dr. Loiselle. He gave a speech to our club on conservation and the state of the waters of the world. Really intelligent guy, and my husband talked with him for quite a while after the speech.
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Post by Carl on Jan 28, 2009 12:20:45 GMT -5
WOW, you really did score here. Maybe you could rub against the computer and pass your good luck around to other members not having as good of fish luck of late BTW, since this is an area of education for me as well, I read about the Matumbi Hunters since I basically only knew of them, but nothing about them; very fascinating! The "Matumbi Hunter" is a very interesting species from Lake Victoria. They should be kept in groups of at least 6 specimens. They can often be seen swimming together in "packs" stalking other fish, trying to find out if females of other species are holding. If that is the case, they will continue the stalking until the female opens her mouth and spit the larvae, which then the "Matumbi Hunters" will prey on. Lipochromis sp. "Matumbi Hunter" have a high metabolism and should be fed lots of food or they will quickly become very thin. They will not eat fry of their own kind. From this site: www.gillsnfins.ca/live_stock.phpCarl
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Post by barbara on Jan 28, 2009 12:37:33 GMT -5
I've also read of species, I'm not sure that it is this one, that will bump the throats of holding mothers, causing them to spit the fry, then eat them. I found that fascinating too.
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Post by eve on Jan 28, 2009 13:25:00 GMT -5
That's awesome jon, congrats
maybe you can even get him to have a look into here
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Post by jonv on Jan 28, 2009 15:03:35 GMT -5
I'll start with my mail to Vinny in what to ask Dr. Loiselle and post what I got back today.
Hi Vinny,
It was really great talking to you and thank you very much for holding those hunters for me. I'll probably come see you on Thursday I think, if not then Friday.
What I was hoping your friend might know is, with Pytchochromis Oligocanthus, I have 1 adult male about 5 inches in size, and 2 smaller females about 2.5 inches in size. The females have laid eggs 2 times. Once when I first got them, back in November, about a week after they were in the tank. The male didn't bother with it and the eggs got abandoned. Second time was back on Jan 9, 09. Both females laid eggs. One picked the top of a brick which was about 3 inches up in the tank, basically an elevated site, and the other about a foot to the right of the other female, but in a small dug out pit area in the gravel. The female in the elevated site abandoned her eggs after a day. The other site, the male spent a great deal of time with the female there and fertilized about half the eggs.
The site that got fertilized, they started hatching on Jan 11, and the female began to pick up the hatched from and moved them about six inches to the rear of where the eggs were laid. Everything appeard to be going well. The male even joined in watching over the fry with the female. They would chase out anyone and anything that came near. The fry were so small, they would bounce up out of the gravel and then fall back down. This progressed to the point where the fry were able to stay up out of the gravel and swim around in a small cloud in a week.
This past Thursday, the 22nd, I turned the lights on in the tank to check on them and I did not see the fry out and around like I had seen all the other times. The male was still hovering over the site, but not really doing anything, just kind of sitting there. The female had began to go out from the site looking for food and not staying in the site area hardly at all. I can only assume they were eaten.
The total tank mates at the time of spawning to free swimming were:
the 1 male and 2 female Pytchochromis Oligocanthus 6 Tilapia Bythobates==various sizes, one clear male in the group, about 4-5 inches, a couple darker females, but not sure all the sexes yet 6 Paratilapia Polleni==2 pretty sure males, getting very dark and a large group of spots. I believe the other 4 to be female. Significantly lighter and little to no spots 1 4 inch Hop Lo catfish 1 4 inch Polka Dot Botia 3 Bronze Cories 4 Palateus Cories 4 Juli Cories 27 2 month old Yellow labs 6 3/4 inch Xistochromis Phytophagus--recent arrival, in the tank about 1 week now. 1 Pseudotropheus Crabro--new arrival also 5 days in tank, very small about 1/2 inch
Tank itself is 100 gallons, a 5 foot length tank, filtered by an Aquaclear 110. Temp steady at 80. Tank mature in terms of nitrogen cycle, it's 1 year up and running. I've began to increase my aquarium salt since November with water changes. I do not have any current GH or KH readings however, I do use Wonder Shells in the tank.
Was hoping to know, if you'd advise or can it be done, putting the male and 2 females in a 15 gallon tank to spawn? I've seen documents on the internet suggesting using a bare substrate also. Any comments on that or advice to get a successful breeding? Am considering taking the eggs out after 24 hours and doing manual incubation with an egg tumbler, but I've never done or tried this before.
Many thanks,
Jon Votraw
Today I got back:
Dear Vinny,
If your friend wants to breed Py. oligacanthus, he is going to need to devote a considerably larger tank to the project. If he sets your male and his female up in a 50 gallon tank with about 1” of gravel on the bottom and furnishes it with a selection of flowerpots placed o their side and a couple of pieces of waterlogged wood, he shouldn’t have to do anything more than feed them well to elicit a spawning. Tsipoy, to give the fish their Malagasy name, are not particularly difficult to breed and are very good parents. They are quite prolific, however. He should plan on a brood of ~ 500 fry. The fry can take newly hatched brine s hr imp for their first meal and are no more difficult to rear than those of the more common Central American cichlids.
Ho ela velona!
Paul
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Post by jonv on Jan 28, 2009 15:07:24 GMT -5
It's worth noting here in the forum, yesterday I transferred out the Yellow Labs to the 75. The input Vinny gave me on the phone is he feels the Botia and the Cories, combined with the sheer number of yellows probably found a way around the 2 parents and ate the last spawn. Makes some sense to me. So when I add in the new female, though Dr. Loiselle seems to think Vinny has the male and I have the female, oops, I'll take out all the cories and the Botia, and see how it goes. At least that answers to me, the use of the 15 gallon is probably not practical.
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Post by jonv on Jan 28, 2009 15:16:16 GMT -5
Also too, sorry to carry on, I am most likely going to lose one of my 2 females I have now. That male got extremely overbearing on them. At first I was under the impression that these resembled South Americans so much they might only pair bond in breeding. I based that on seeing the male harass the female that laid the eggs on the brick, over into the corner and she wouldn't come out at all, while he stayed very close to the female that laid her eggs down in the substrate. I'm just using the eggs laid 2 weeks ago as a means to differ from the 2 females I have.
He basically beat or terrified one female to the upper corner of the tank while dedicating his time to the other. Since the terrified/beaten one was looking in bad shape, I took her out and put her over in the 180 on Monday night. So yesterday, I took out all the decor to net up the yellow labs, went over to Hackettstown, to move the labs out there. I come back and found the female he was spending time with, up in the top of the tank, laying sideways. So I am guessing he beat the poop out of her too.
I read this as he's ready to go and they aren't and he wasn't getting eggs out of them, so he just beat them like a typical Malawi. I put both females now down in the 15 gallon tank last night, with only 25, 2 week old yellow lab fry. I don't feel those fry should be any level of threat or stress to them, but looking at the female that came out of the 100 last night, she's looking VERY beaten and hardly moving. Honestly, I don't expect her to make it.
I've treated the tank with Furan II, added 2 tblespoons of salt, a dose of Prime, and I meth blue bathed them both before putting them in the tank last night. I have to buy a heater for the 75 on the way out today anyways, so I'm going to pick up some melafix. Still, I doubt she's going to make it. I've never been able to recover a fish in this shape in the past.
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Post by brenda on Jan 28, 2009 21:54:34 GMT -5
Make sure to let us know when you get them!!!!
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Post by jonv on Jan 30, 2009 14:50:13 GMT -5
Ok I'm back from the Bronx. Vinny has quite the few large tanks of assorted groups, and very large amounts of fry in his tank. He's a very helpful person as well. I was actually able to speak with Dr. Loiselle on the phone but very briefly, which I can very well understand a man of his stature that actually has some cichlids named after him, it was just a complete honor to even ask him a question.
I gave him a very brief overview of the 100 and what happend with the Pytcho's from obtaining to failed breeding. He indicated that he would agree with Vinny on the bottom feeder aspect, in that not just the noctournal aspect alone, but in fact that in the natural habitat in Madagascar, there are very few catfish and loaches and such as it is, so defense or protection of fry by the parents, is highly likely that the bottom feeders wouldn't be viewed as a threat.
He also did mention, believe this or not, that my Paratilapia Polleni, at the sizes they are now, could actually breed at any time, which I found interesting. Without trying to tie up a man like this with questions, I felt it more prudent to end the questions there and ask if I may contact him in the future if other questions arrise. Due to the traffic of mail he gets, for the time being, he asked I contact him through Vinny, which I completely understand as well, but that just put a big old feather in my cap to hear the guy's voice!
Anyways, I'm acclimating the hunters and the additional Pytcho female I picked up. One thing worth noting in the forum here. This Pytcho female, has the same color pattern as the male. She is in now way at all black or dark. She's very light and silver in body color, and Vinny indicated, there are several crater lakes in the Nosy Bee area so this might be a female that was collected from a different collection site, and why there is a coloration difference. Should have mentioned this to Dr. Loiselle but forgot. Also worth noting as well, Dr. Loiselle refers to the Pytcho's as the "Tiger" cichlid. Didn't occur to me to ask him why either, sorry.
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Post by brenda on Jan 30, 2009 15:05:17 GMT -5
Wow Jon, that is awesome. How many hunters did you get and how big are they. I need pics!!!!
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Post by Carl on Jan 30, 2009 15:34:42 GMT -5
Wow Jon, that is awesome. How many hunters did you get and how big are they. I need pics!!!! YES; pics! Is this picture a good representative of the Pytchochromis Oligocanthus? Pytchochromis oligocanthus PictureCarl
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Post by goldenpuon on Jan 30, 2009 15:35:05 GMT -5
Sounds great Jon. You're very lucky to have found someone so knowledgable about cichlids.
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Post by jonv on Jan 30, 2009 19:31:57 GMT -5
That is one yes Carl, and is a male too. My male doesn't quite have those kind of colors on him, where you can see a hint of red on the face. He's more plain, but will display some yellow and red along the top end of his dorsal fin when he's ready to breed, and the mouth has a VERY light hue of pinkish red to it. But not as distinct as in that photo. The female that I just got, has actually darkend slightly. The older female though, you can't miss, she's very dark like someone half spray painted her black.
Of note, one of the male Hunters has a scratch along the back end of the body, near the tail that is similar to the scratch marks I posted on my 5 Juvenile Nimbochromis Venustus. I am not sure if it was from another fish, likely the Johanni as I saw it chasing the hunter around quite a bit, but the other male and female, stay much higher up in the tank. I'll work on shots later on. I moved the injured male to the 100.
Please take a look into my other photo postings until you find the Nimbochromis Venustus Juvies, and the one where I took a close up. YOu'll see what looks like a slash along the body. The new male hunter has one of these, back towards his tail fin, but on the body. Looks like a slash as if he did it against a rock or something. Can't see this as a bite mark. Treatment with melafix?
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Post by jonv on Jan 30, 2009 19:32:49 GMT -5
Also, that new female Pytcho Carl, is much smaller then the older female I have, BUT she's quite egg laden (fat in the mid section) and the ovipositer is dropped down.
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Post by jonv on Jan 30, 2009 19:56:45 GMT -5
Lotje is using my phone at the moment so I can't take a picture Carl or Bill, but the hunter has a mark on his body that looks just like this: i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa25/knottypeater/PICT0011-5.jpgBut the mark is 3/4ths the way down the body near the tail. On the other side of the body, a white spot has formed. For now I moved it to the 100 gallon, less stress there, and dosed the 100 with Melafix. Little risk with that, and I believe that Melafix should be inert in terms of most ingredients that might alter the water chemistry. I don't see any potential damage being done adding a dose fit for the tank size.
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